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Discussion in 'The Club House' started by alsaqr, May 26, 2020.
What is QI?????
as mentioned previously..the concept of policing is not mentioned by the founded fathers during their writing of this country's founding governances!
some actually believe current policing is unconstitutional!
wait a minute...you who've espoused you've known 100's, dealt with 1000's, and trained multitudes...don't have a bloody clue what QI is...
Your kidding right?
Qualified immunity . You know the thing that keeps you and did me at the last of my stint being able to do as LE pretty much what we want regardless of the BOR or law and get away with it.
A SCOTUS invention.
LOL X 100000000000? How, pray tell, do we enforce any semblance of order in society them. You have totally lost any concept of reality. Do you have a PhD???
It just didn't loo like a hard push. More like a light touch. Looked like bad acting to me.
I never heard that term before. I guess we LE don't have it or need it. Now I did get some orders in RVN that were given with a 'extreme prejudice' attached.
Same way we did before any such thing as a standing police force was created.
The first was the U.S Marshalls.
Boston I believe had the first non fed law dogs. Mostly to bust union organizing.
Colonial folk were wisely leery of standing armies and standing police forces. So there were no " police" as we know them.
Policd dont enforce order.
They are not capable of it, if for no other reason they are the tiniest minority in the nation. They generate revenue for the most part and play clean up after the fact.
People follow most laws most of the time on their own , just out of habit.
When enough citizens actively refuse to obey a law LE has no ability to enforce it.
Prohibition and the drug war being prim rdd examples.
Prohibition was rescinded because it could not be enforced. It did create organized crime though.
Drug war will be the same eventually.
We did not have 330 million people here than, AND there more of an ingrained respect for others and for authority then (aka, a sense of right and wrong). Marshalls are 'cops'!!!
It only applies to LE Jim.
The whole SCOTUS case over qualified immunity sprang from a suit against LE .
SCOTUS dreamed QI up out of thin air.
It protects LEO pretty much against any suit over anything they do with few exceptions.
Odd you wouldn't know about it . Every LEO usually learns about it as part of their training and have for decades.
sigh...quote from peer reviewed scholarly work.
Yet professional police were unknown to the United States in 1789, and first appeared in America almost a half-century after the Constitution's ratification. The Framers contemplated law enforcement as the duty of mostly private citizens, along with a few constables and sheriffs who could be called upon when necessary. This article marshals extensive historical and legal evidence to show that modern policing is in many ways inconsistent with the original intent of America's founding documents.
sorry jimrau, you are circling counter-clockwise around your credibility drain trying smoke and mirrors to maintain any semblance of your credibility.
Thank you captain obvious.
I know U.S Marshall's are cops.
I watched True Grit too.
I’d like to see that back of his head. I’d bet there is no bruise.
The guy shoved made the decisions that got him there, yes.
The guy doing the shoving decided getting shoved off his feet onto concrete was "just the thing" to be done, and that nothing else would do.
What we all need to "get straight" is reasonableness, and what a reasonable degree of force is in order to move a person from spot A to spot B. It's not as though that man at that spot was creating a dire threat to anyone, least of all ~5 people acting in unison right in front of him to get past him. They could have easily slowed a bit to grab him, forcibly move him out of the way (to the side or wherever), without a likely risk of upending the guy. After all any fool ought to have appreciated it wasn't a dirt path or sandlot; it was concrete, there, and being 70-something there's a fair chance getting shoved hard backward can result in a fall, which at 70+ isn't hardly the same as doing that same move to a fit and relatively athletic 20-something.
Without knowing anything about the person being moved? Clearly, the guy wasn't 21yrs of age any longer. Clearly he was north of 60, likely north of 70, the way the video showed him with the 70-something "stoop" (that 20-somethings almost never have). Not that every feature and every aspect is to be known by someone, no. But you darned well better get a clue about one's likely ability to withstand a violent strike or a very hard shove backward, and its actual necessity given various easily-chosen alternatives, if you're going to be doing something like that on concrete.
What was so bloody vital, right then, that it could wait another 4-5 seconds to manhandle the guy with several folks on his arms and waist to firmly move him off-line? What was so bloody vital, at that instant, that being shoved back off his feet was the lone alternative that was going to a) cope with the guy's reticence at allowing them to operate unimpeded, and b) allow them to protect basic dignity and person at the same time.
That riots elsewhere had occurred over the last several days doesn't alter the given situation to one of dire threat, with no over threat right then and there.
It's situations like these, relatively rare though they might be, that in this age of frequent recordings from multiple perspectives, is going to be the hand that cuts the legs right out from under authoritative policing in this country, if people are not careful. Every instance of this sort of thing, when there are clear alternatives, when there's no clear dire risk of the least delay, when there are clear risks to a 70-something when shoved hard on concrete, adds gasoline to the fire. Like several people with boots on the back and neck until dead, as in this thread's OP.
Ain't gonna end well, such myopia.
The dude was out of the way behind the large cement object, then moved towards the PoPo.
If you walk out in front of a train, what is going to happen to you?
People follow most laws most of the time on their own just out of habit. Wow that’s awfully hard to believe. What do you think would have happened to the old guy if he was in with the peaceful protesters while wearing a MAGA hat or American flag?
He would be dead now!