FBI Investigating Death Of Man In Police Custody

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by alsaqr, May 26, 2020.

  1. F4U

    F4U Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I grew up about 30 miles from Kent. I was 6 years old in 1970, listening to my dad and uncle argue over it. What I don't believe is that anybody who was shot was "just wandering by" and not participating in the protest.
     
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  2. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    In Louisville KY, the other day, for example, police and National Guard units were fired upon at an after-curfew gathering that refused to disperse, and they returned fire. A man was shot and died. The narrative is taking up typical sound and feel, as you describe, though it's hard to know whether the man in question was part of the threat or merely a "bystander" who's being martyred (this being early stages in any investigation). Much to the Louisville police department's discredit, apparently this situation involved yet another example of "failure" of police bodycams (the Chief of PD was just fired, over this and a long string of similar "institutional failures").

    Fact is, in that town there's a dusk-to-dawn curfew order in force. There's National Guard and police controlling riotous gatherings, along with other gatherings, in an attempt to keep areas of the town from being burned to the ground and looted. And tensions are high, with all of the recent lashing-out, recent "heavy-handed" handling of situations.

    No telling how many such situations are going to arise, as everything is so fluid in cities across the country. A lot going on. A lot of people "thumbing" the city and state, in all of this. And a lot of people are well-armed. "Powder keg" comes to mind, as a descriptor. And the old adage "Nothin' good occurs after midnight."

    Be safe, out there, everyone. And keep yer powder dry. No telling how this will all turn out, all across the country.
     
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  3. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    A gathering, demonstration and protest are one thing.

    Active engagements in felonious acts of violence, though, are something else.

    Just like it's not all that difficult to discern the assailant in a "street" robbery against another, anyone ought to be able to finger the "assailant" in an arson attempt, a looting, etc. Those individuals caught in the act are NOT, at that moment, "protesters" or "demonstrators" like everyone else nearby. And it'd be the rare person incapable of making the distinction, just looking in that direction.

    That said, of course any "gathering" that has a few individual participants who go sideways can be a fluid, nasty thing to get hold of. People milling about, individual bad actors here and there throughout a crowd. I get that, of course. Still, it's not all that difficult to finger the arsonist, when a place is being fired: it's the idjet with the gas can and the torch, almost certainly, and not grandma over yonder on the other side of the street. (LE, NG and others ought to be able to distinguish; it ain't that difficult, on the instant of a given act of violence being perpetrated so clearly.)
     
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  4. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

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    of interest g66enigma - the chief was fired...oh yes thats the head of the hydra but thats not the rank & file who are perpetuating the "consciousness" to not engage the body cams nor will putting number 2 in charge, nothing of substance in the blue brotherhood's behaviour toward 'them' the citizens.

    in fact it means the blue brotherhood cadre will begin to be more secretive in their actions or pout and engage in a work slow down like the Baltimore agency did after they man handled the young man who died "from the rough transport" to in-processing...
     
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  5. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Exactly, thanks for making my point for me.
     
  6. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People are quick to shout about their constitutional rights, right to bear arms, to free assembly, to peaceful protest. They could then hardly go on to support troops shooting unarmed student protesters, could they. Its the sort of thing you expect to happen in Russia China etc, not America. That's one reason why using troops for civil unrest, something they are not trained for can go badly wrong.
     
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  7. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, it's only a first step. Without digging out the cancer that causes such missteps, such "institutional" failures of equipment and procedure, nothing will improve.

    Sadly, for every dozen departments with a mess like this, likely hundreds are doing it right, correctly and properly, upholding people's dignity and liberty as highly as ever during the execution of their formal role as policing agencies. Of course, doing it right doesn't make "good" news; doesn't "lead" if it doesn't "bleed" (in the news).

    Hopefully this will be the start of improvements in that town. It's high time to finally fix it ... constraints, directives, training, leadership, educational/hiring standards, heavily evaluating all aspects of the org, the whole shebang. I don't think half the citizens in that town will tolerate anything less, at this point.
     
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  8. Notrighty

    Notrighty Active Member

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    Sad times indeed but if this continues in so many cities the possibility of military intervention might be inevitable. Remember back when COVID 19 was a big problem?
     
  9. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, the Ohio national guard killed students protesting the Vietnam war at Kent State. Those same national guards were exempt from serving in Vietnam. Very early in the war the white house decided not to commit national guard troops and reserve troops to Vietnam. They upped the draft instead.

    Except for a few Air Guard units national guard units stayed at home, a haven for draft dodgers.
     
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  10. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    I remember when all we had to listen to was screaming across an aisle.

    Those were the days.
     
  11. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Last I heard, there is some question if the guard and LE were in fact shot at .
    That they fired indiscriminately not knowing who to shoot at isnt in question.

    The man they shot was a restaurant owner who had been feeding the cops for free.
    The crowd being moved were not involved in any protest but gathered on the resturant owners lot in violation of curfew.

    Remains to be seen how this plays out.
    One thing is certain it wont help settle anything down.
     
  12. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Though, the surveillance video footage from a distance clearly shows the whole "square" (intersection?) area where the incident occurred, and more than a dozen LE/NG staff all reacted similarly at the same time ... apparently to a noise, and then most turned soon after toward the perceived threat.

    Hard to fake that.
     
  13. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen that. Theres no question there was a noise
    Question is was it actually gun fire. Or something else.

    It obviously didnt come from the man they killed.
    At minimum, LMPD will be a little shorter on the free vittles this man was feeding them.

    I don't know when it became acceptable for armed " professionals " to fire into crowds indiscriminately over a noise , without having the first clue what or who they are shooting at.

    Whenever it was it was the beginning of the end in this country.

    The longer and more widespread this gets the more I'm inclined to think the fuse we all talk about being lit has hit the powder keg.
    If Trump introduces the military into this it's a toss up of what may happen.

    To 100,000s of thousands of people in organized armed groups, introduction of the military into civilian matters is a huge red flag that they MAY not ignore.

    Hard to know how this plays out in the end. About all one can do is arm up. supply up, and last as long as possible if it comes to that.
    Arming up is happening with gun sales going thru the roof .
     
  14. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    Very, very bad. If it occurred as it appeared to have.

    One of the primary four guidelines for safe handling of arms. Utterly disregarded in that instance, apparently, assuming of course the "return" fire came from several of the NG/LE members in that "square" (intersection) and the man struck was in that crowd of citizens.

    As for the "free vittles," I suspect that with the firing of the Louisville PD chief, much of that freedom (to fire into a crowd, for example) has permanently gone out the window. Riskier to LE, depending on such changes. But that's one of the impacts of demanding higher performance in such deadly dangerous situations as crowds, like that.

    I think some call this sort of thing "a 'hot' mess." Yeah. It is that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  15. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Kent has been milked dry over 50 years as an example of brutality and oppression exactly because such events are so rare. In places like Africa, where racism has of course been defeated, this stuff is everyday life and nobody pays attention. Wait for the UN General Assembly with China and Cuba in the lead to condemn the killing of Mr Floyd.
     
  16. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

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    really?
     
  17. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Louisville PD is, today, releasing publicly a surveillance video clip they say shows the man who was struck by NG/LE bullets to be firing upon NG/LE prior to their engaging him.

    Can't say that I see the details sufficiently well in that video to come to that conclusion, but that's what they are indicating the video shows. From what I can tell, the man claimed to be firing upon NG/PD is under covered awning at the cook stand, with many people holding up big cellphones around, so it's hard to say whether the video shows what it's purported to show.

    So, perhaps it was gunfire from the man who was killed, prior to being engaged. (News/video below.)


    Police say video shows David McAtee firing shots before being hit in west Louisville shooting @ WDRB News (Louisville, KY), 6/2/20. Video clip shown, along with news story.
     
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  18. Notrighty

    Notrighty Active Member

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    Wonder why a guy would reach out of a doorway to fire at police while being monitored by his own servailance camera. Looked like maybe a phone dropping to the floor. Probably should have stayed inside and not reached thru the door with any object in his hand.
     
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  19. Missouribound

    Missouribound Well-Known Member

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    Seriously...do you have a comprehension problem?
    My comment was a response to a comment made about race relations.
    Perhaps if you paid attention before you made YOUR comment you could avoid proving your apathy towards facts.
     
  20. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Yep just finished watching it several times. Both the inside his business and outside video.
    Cant even tell if he has a gun. If it was him he raised his arm twice at much to much of an upward angle to be shooting AT anyone.

    He is tending enough grills out back to feed an army though.

    Why the cops were shooting pepper bullets at a small group under the tent behind his business doing nothing is beyond me though.

    Unless they come up with better than that they proved nothing . Nowhere does it show the man firing a weapon.
     
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