Failure to feed.

Discussion in 'Range Report' started by JTJ, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Last week I took my wife to the indoor range and she shot my 9PF. She shot 2-7 round mags of 124 gr at 5 yards. My targets have a 5" red center and she was able to keep the 1st 11 rnds in the red. She dropped the last 3 as the recoil in the light gun was beating her up. That part was fine but she had several failures to feed. The slide closed but the rnd did not strip from the mag. I only brought one mag and I had some ftf also. This is my carry gun and had not had any problems with the 124 gr prior. I cleaned and put the gun away and am carrying my G36.
    I took the 9PF to the range this afternoon after buying some RWS 124 gr rnds. Turns out the bullets were magnetic and I could not use them on the range. I bought a box of American Eagle 147 gr to try at $15. I was not giving him $25 a box for $15 a box ammo. I used my other mag 1st. I loaded 7 in the mags and 1 in the chamber. The 3rd rnd failed to strip from the mag. The mag was seated properly. The rest of the box ran flawlessly. I am going out to the outdoor range possibly tomorrow and run the 124 grns. Both mags ran perfectly after the one ftf.
    One thing I noticed is the recoil from the 147 gr rnds was not as sharp and the gun was much more controllable. I was shooting at 7 yards and 45 were in the 5" center. I pushed 5 rnds down just below the red center. My fault. All were in a 6" group. I was firing quickly trying to get the gun to malfunction. I am still carrying the G36 until I get the 9PF trust worthy again. Now I need to find some 147 gr HP rnds to try out.
    Any ideas??
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    some guns are prone to liking only certain rounds. if i was using a 9mm i would be using the heaviest rounds available for self defense. im a big believer in bullet weight. bigger the better. also some brands do require a break in period. if your berreta is new i would run at least 500 rounds before even worrying about defensive round trials.
     

  3. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is a Kel-Tek 9PF. It has had several hundred rnds through it. I previously only had a problem with 115 gr rnds. The problem with the 124's showed up last Thursday when my wife was shooting it and persisted when I shot it. I had run a couple hundred rnds of 124 without a problem prior to that. Now it is running again. I am wondering if I did something wrong when I cleaned it. I clean it whenever I shoot it. Other thought is weak mag springs.
    I use 230's in my 45 and 180's in my 40 but for some reason I went light on the 9mm. It sure handled better with the 147's.
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    not sure why i saw barretta???? must be my dyslexia acting up. a lot of small guns of higher quality than kaltecs, not trying to be rude, require recoil spring changes every 500 rounds or so. not doing so can cause fail to feeds. my colt new agent is recomended by colt to do that very thing to keep it running without issues. i keep an extra spring assembly on hand so when i hit the 500 round mark i swap it out and order a new one. i worry about that more with a fire arm i use for self defense than one that just sees range time.

    i keep making adds to this. heh.

    anyway i dont think you can clean it terribly wrong. i also frequently spring change on my colt series 70 since it is also a SD gun. my colt sp1 and ruger sr556 get frequent spring changes too. i will use the old springs for range time if they still feel like they got some life left.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2010
  5. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is a thought but I have never had a mag spring fail on my handguns. Makes me think about carrying a revolver. I had a Kel-Tek P11 also 9mm that I put several thousand rnds through without a hitch. The only time it failed was a bad primer. It was constantly loaded. I had a really cheap supply of ammo and I shot a lot. I could buy reloads cheaper than I could load it. My defensive rnds were and still are new commercial.
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    not mag springs recoil springs. not saying that is the case. its just a possible. i would look more at the ammo to be honest ultra small pistols can be really cranky.
     
  7. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Look at the mags themselves. Check if there is a crack near the rear of the lip area. If there is, then I would consider new mags. You may have to load the mag to capacity before the crack becomes evident.
     
  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No cracks in the mags.
     
  9. Squirrel_Slayer

    Squirrel_Slayer New Member

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    To me it just sounds like your wife is "limp wristing" the gun, and the slide is not coming all of the way back. Did the pistol have the same problems while you were shooting it?

    My mom has a Bersa Thunder.380 and she has problems with fte's all of the time. I shoot it and it functions flawlessly. I tell her to hold on to it like she means it, and then problem solved. But she forgets, and then the fte problem comes back. Just a thought.
     
  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I did not have a problem until she shot it. When the problem came up I fired a mag and it did it to me to. After I cleaned it and shot the 147's it failed on the 3rd shot but not again. The rest of the box went with out a hitch. I was running 1 in the chamber and 7 in the mag which is full capacity.
    When it failed it looked like the rnds had not come up but it chambered when I tapped and racked. Possibly the mag slipped down but there is a definate click when you shove the mag in. My grip does not touch the mag release. Also possible the mags are tight. The followers were moving freely.
     
  11. CHLChris

    CHLChris New Member

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    You saw Beretta because the KelTec is a PF9, not 9PF

    And the Beretta has a 92F.

    Just a combination of errors. I had no idea what the OP meant by 9PF, either until he clarified "Keltec."
     
  12. patret

    patret New Member

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    That problem could be caused by a under powered round or a recoil spring that is to heavy for the rounds being fired. All Auto`s have their recoil spring from the factory that is typically heavy. I have three recoil springs for my Colt Gold Cup and several for my other auto pistols. There is a trick to taking some of the lbs out of them but be very carefull. A broken frame could result in to light of a recoil spring.

    hope this helps,

    patret
     
  13. utf59

    utf59 New Member

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    The only time I've had a gun not strip a round from the top of the magazine (other than shooter error) was when I got a single underpowered round. I knew it right away because the sound was light, and it didn't feel right — I was afraid I had a squib. The slide cycled enough to eject the casing but not enough to grab the next round.

    You mentioned that you tried different grain weights; did this also include different manufacturers? That is, were the 147-gr. rounds that gave you the problems the same brand as the 147-gr. rounds that worked well? Even if they were, it's possible there was a bad lot of ammunition.

    There are a few guns that specify which end of the recoil spring faces forward. I'm not familiar with Kel-Tecs, but double-check your user manual to make sure it was in there correctly.

    That's all I got.
     
  14. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There was only 1 ftf with the AE 147's and it was the 3 rnd. All fed fine after. The initial problem was with Fiocchi 124 gr hardball when my wife was shooting it. On previous occasions I had run 100 rnd of the same ammo without a hitch. I had planned on getting to the range yesterday but I am upgrading my allarm system and it took longer than exected. Possibly tomorrow morning. I will go with Fiocchi 124 gr and RWS 124 gr. Everything looked normal when I cleaned the gun after the failures. I did however switch from Breakfree to Shooters Choice FP-10 after the failure so I am wondering if it was a lube problem. I wont know until I run some rnds. I do know the 10/22 and the Marlin 700 like the FP-10 better. It might have take a few rnds to get the oil worked into the gun.
     
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I took the PF9 to the range today. All bad. I fired 20+ rnds of Fiocchi 124 gr and still having the same problem. Switched to RWS 124 gr hardball and it is jamming on the top of the chamber. Same problem I had with the 115 gr.:mad: I called KelTec and they are sending me new recoil springs. If that does not fix it, then it gets shipped back to the factory.
    I took my very neglected Marlin 700 with me and it salvaged the morning. I slapped a 3x9x32 scope on it the other day and sighted it in at 50 yards with 36 gr mini mags. 1st 3 on paper low and right. Adjusted the scope and next 12 were in the 10 ring. I used the top of the lower cross hair post, duplex reticle, at 100 yds and got 7 out of 10 into the 10 ring. Darn good little $80 gun.:) It shoots better than my Ruger 10/22.
     
  16. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Kel Tec sent me a new recoil spring assembly. I got it today so I installed it and took the PF9 to the indoor range. It looks like it is cured. I ran 50 rnds of AE 147 gr with 1 rnd hanging up on the top of the chamber. They are flat nose. I also ran some 115gr Blazer Brass and some 124 gr Hydros with no problems. I will have to take some 115 gr HP next time. The Blazer felt a little hot and had a very white flash. Also shot low indicating higher speed. I need to get some 147 gr HP.
     
  17. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    glad to hear its just a worn spring :)