Failure to feed first round.

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Dr. Marneaus, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    My newish AR is having issues feeding the first round.
    Spikes dissipator upper, M4 feed ramps that look properly aligned, not mismatched.

    Issue appeared today, out of nowwhere.

    I'm using the same ammo (bulk federal XM193 or whatever) and the same mags that i've used before (pmags) with no issues. I had something like 200 rounds through the gun previously before this happened out of the blue.

    it hasnt been cleaned since the last time i went shooting, maybe 60 rounds since cleaned.

    It wont strip the first round from the mag on its own. I drop the bolt and it goes about 1/3rd of the way forward and gets stuck. if i pull the charging handle back, and let it fly again, it'll go into battery.

    After that, the gun cycles flawlessly.

    If i take the mag out, with say only 20 rounds in it, unload it, reinsert the bag and either pull the charging handle or drop the bolt it'll do the same thing. doesnt matter how many rounds are in the mag.

    It looks like the bullet is getting stuck in the notches at the top of the feed ramp where the bolt locks in (sorry, i dont know the terms in mnew to AR's).

    The feed ramps or notches in the barrel extention pinch and gouge the bullet, its leaving deep gouges in the jacket.

    ideas?

    like i said, it cycles fine once its loaded, but it just out of nowhere started to refuse to strip the first round.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    you can faintly see the gouge on the bullet.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Dr.

    The first thing I would suggest and the easiest diagnosis of the problem would be to get a standard metal new magazine and see if you still experience the problem. My bet is as follows from your explanation and photos.
    My thought is that is definitely the PMags. Not that PMags are bad but if you leave them fully loaded for a period of time they tend to spread out the Magazine Lips causing the problem you are speaking of. That is why the military does not use them as standard issue due to this problem.
    If the standard magazine does not solve your problem which I think it will. The next issue to address would be the Buffer Spring and in that order. 1. Magazine Test with New Metal Mil-Spec or same quality magazine. And then the #2 CAR Buffer Spring getting weal although I doubt that this is your problem.
    Also from the chamber pictures I was concerned that there may have been Wolf varnish coated ammunition fired in the weapon which builds up in the chamber and causes problems if not totally removed. However may just be a shadow from the photo process? Try a New Mag first!
    Let us know what you find out!
    03
     

  3. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    These mags are all newish. Some have sat with ammo in them for 1 month, and one of them was literally brand new.

    Ill still try tho!

    Like I said the strange thing is it literally happened out of nowhere. And it happened s with every.Mag, even the brand new one
     
  4. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Kinda looks like the case neck catches on the feed ramp. Does it always happen when feeding from the right magazine lip, because that right feed ramp doesn't look quite as good as the other. Sounds like something that will work itself out with more rounds down the pipe but this shouldn't happen in the first place.
     
  5. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    DR.

    Also make sure you Gas tube is in proper alignment. If the gun was a kit gun and the barrel nut was not properly aligned and slightly out of alignment. This will definitely cause the problem you are having. Misalignment can also be caused by cleaning and bending the Gas Tube in the Receiver causing misalignment with the Gas Tube. To check this remove your upper from the lower. Take your Bolt out of your Carrier and return your Carrier into the Upper and move the Carrier and Carrier Key back and forth over the Gas Tube with your hand. You will be able to feel any bind or flex of the Gas tube you have located your problem. If you do and it has a bind this could attribute to your problem you are describing. It happens all the time in our classes when the student does not properly align the Barrel Nut for the Gas Tube assembly. Alignment must be perfect! When proper alignment is achieved with the Barrel Nut when barreling a rifle the gas tube should be *Easily inserted into the receiver through the Delta Ring Assembly and Gas Tube Hole in the front of the Receiver. With the Gas Tube on one side or the other of the front sight when pushing it in to the Receiver no resistance should be felt. Either side is acceptable! Very few times will it fit with no resistance on both sides of the front sight! One side is FINE! Which ever side works with no resistance! If it is forced you will also get the same issue that you are experiencing. I do not know if this rifle was built by the factory or someone for you but something to check also. I suggested the Mag first because it is the easiest!
    As you are aware it is hard sometimes to diagnose a rifle by posts! But we will help all we can. There are many here with a lot of experience with the Black Gun!
    Send us a photo of the Gas Tube in the Receiver from a 90 degree angle shooting in the bottom of the upper receiver if you can! And also a shot from the rear down the Charging Handle channel of the Gas Tube end!
    03
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  6. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    My PMAGs stayed loaded for like a year and they still work fine and there is no spread at all.:confused:
     
  7. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    Awesome, thanks for the advice!

    Ill definitely check into the gas tube issues as explained above.

    I built the lower but I bought the upper complete from spikes. I just changed the handguard. It worked fine for about 200 rounds.

    Is it normal for the barrel extension to marr the projectile so much?

    In the pictures it does look like the neck is getting hung up, but its not, its the bullet itself that's getting stuck in the notches at the top of the feed ramps. Is it possible that they are just too sharp or pointy?
     
  8. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Still sounds like a mag problem to me!

    But
    #1 Check the Magazine first They are the #1 Cause of AR and M-16
    Malfunctions.
    #2 Check the gas tube alignment
    #3 Check out another Buffer Spring

    Good Luck and let us know if you need any additional ideas.

    Sputnik that is good but we have seen several with the problem.
     
  9. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Get some steel cased ammo and let it work those sharp edges down
     
  10. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    buddy lent me a functional steel mag, i'll fiddle with it tomorrow.
     
  11. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    A known good steel Mag does the EXACT same thing.

    It happens from either side if the Mag, fyi
     
  12. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Next up try a buffer spring! Then so on! That eliminated the problem that it is a mag problem. Good Job on that! Wish I could be there in person to assist.

    03
     
  13. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    Ill give it a good cleaning too. Its not super dirty but who knows?
     
  14. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    just did a nice cleaning.

    same issue exists.

    i rolled a q tip around on the feed ramps to check for burrs....and nothing got hung up. left right or moving it up the ramp. i think coming back a little it dragged but thats because of the points at the corners of the lug recesses.

    I double checked my magazine release, and i even tightened it a turn, and made sure it was all aligned, and still dropped free and everything as good, thought maybe it wasnt giving enough alignment or something. but we're fine there. same issue.

    i just again with 3 different p mags and 1 steel mag.

    pulled the buffer spring and everything looks 100% right as rain. its dragging along and getting stuck on the dang locking lug recesses for some reason.

    no dice!
     
  15. Jpfisher1989

    Jpfisher1989 New Member

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    If you get a buffer spring.
    I suggest a tubbs flat spring buffer spring
     
  16. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    wow.

    I just heard from somebody on another forum that has the same upper that they purchased around the same time is having the same issue.

    the plot thickens.

    he actually said he's on his 3rd upper from them....
     
  17. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    Aite.....

    just spoke to Spikes tech support on the phone, and they said coincidentally they had just finished talking about the email that I sent.

    He said it looks like I've tried everything they would have asked me to (different mags, good mags, shooting XM193, breaking it in, cleaning, checking different components, etc) and so they'll probably RMA it and have me send it in. He said the guy that does all that stuff was sitting next to him and was on the other line and he should email me back today most likely.

    The guy on the phone at Spikes Tactical said they had some similar issues with some of their barrels that they were getting from FN because of some sharp edges on the feed ramps and locking lug recesses....but then they realized I dont have an FN barrel.

    So, regardless of the issues, at least it looks like they'll be helping me get it solved.
     
  18. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Even if it's a different barrel is there any chance Spikes uses same barrel extension on those barrels and yours? I would think the barrels and extension are done at the factory but something to ask them in case.
     
  19. Dr. Marneaus

    Dr. Marneaus New Member

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    I will ask them, indeed.

    I got an email today, they're going to get an RMA going and get my upper back in to see whats going on.

    I'm getting a little nervous though, I'm hearing some interesting things from the fellow i mentioned above who is dealing with them as well....so we'll see what happens.
     
  20. GCL

    GCL New Member

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    sticking first round in ar15

    Hi
    I also had an issue with the first round sticking and this is how I solved the problem. I am sure that there are those that will poo bah this but it worked for me.
    It was not the gas tube, the buffer spring, or the mag, all I did (and this works every time for me ) was pull and release the charging handle and then give the bolt knob on the right side a very hard wack with the palm of my hand, that's all I do and it works every time for me on the first round of a new mag.
    Maybe it will work for you ? :D