F&F investigation cooling...why?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by bkt, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Republicans balking on Fast and Furious help suppress new information
    David Codrea
    Gun Rights Examiner

    Two significant insider accounts that would expand public knowledge about the government’s role in the Fast and Furious “gunwalking” criminal enterprise are being withheld from public dissemination because the sources fear reprisals, an “Armed American Radio” panel discussed on last night’s nationally syndicated program. This correspondent joined host Mark Walters, Producer Sean Young, guests Joe Weaver of WGUL 860 AM and blogger George “Mad Ogre” Hill, to examine the effects the slow pace of the investigation and a perceived lack of will to pursue serious legal consequences by the GOP leadership have had on discouraging a whistleblower and an industry source from allowing their stories to be made public.

    The first account deals with an ATF whistleblower. Gun Rights Examiner engaged in extensive telephone conversations with a known source, followed by numerous emails, to clarify information provided, only to be asked not to publicly release the report after it had been drafted. The reason for this was the source had no confidence that anyone would provide protection, particularly in light of personal experience as well as other documented cases of retaliation by the government.

    The second story was sourced by an industry insider in a geographical region that is not the Southwest, but who nonetheless provided details of gunwalking and straw purchasing to include the name of an agent from Phoenix familiar to those who have followed reporting on Fast and Furious. Again, after a long and detailed telephone interview, supplemented by a series of clarifying follow-up questions, the source elected not to proceed with publication because of a sudden ATF visit that could devastate the business or worse. Further or more specific details cannot be provided in order to protect this source’s identity, but it can be said that (he/she) runs an enterprise many gun owners would recognize and this person is also implicitly trusted by the head of a prominent state-level gun rights group who brought (him/her) together with Gun Rights Examiner.

    “Through the lack of aggressive leadership by the Republicans, two things are happening,” this correspondent observed. “People who want to come forward with information, information that I have and can now not share, are backing off because they’re scared that they’re going to be left out to hang.”

    “That’s frightening,” Walters remarked. “Frightening. Free society? Free? These people are petrified of their own government and won’t open their mouths.”


    Indeed. And these are but two instances with which Gun Rights Examiner has had direct recent experience. That similar reluctance to get involved is probably more widespread seems a reasonable assumption, and it’s fair to ask what more the public isn’t learning -- and may never know -- because those who do see no personal “up” side in coming forward and plenty of sobering reasons not to.
     
  2. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    "plenty of sobering reasons not to"

    Well, that makes all the difference, doesn't it? Personally, I don't believe they are looking for a personal "up" side, other than to not have their lives destroyed by the same people that allowed F&F to happen.

    I also believe that if given protection from those people, they would come forward. But, who can protect anyone from this administration without destroying the lives of the whistleblowers to give them the protection needed?

    Now, I could be wrong.
     

  3. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    Cowards :mad: - sometimes in life you just have to do the right thing ... no mater what!
     
  4. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    By all means, Fast & Furious should be investigated.

    But what should also be investigated are the thug threats against businesses and individuals by the ATF and DOJ who have information they're scared to share.

    Yes, doing the right thing is important. At the end of the day, though, if I have a business which my family and I depend on and I know it will be shut down if I "do the right thing" I'm probably going to be a lot less inclined to open my mouth.
     
  5. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Bingo!!!!

    The entire F&F "congressional investigation" has lacked direction and fortitude. Its more like a love hate affair between the Republicans in congress and the BATFE. Few, if any, in congress have said one damn word about reining in the out of control BATFE.

    Congressman Darryl Issa has guts; too damn bad Boehner and the house leadership are a bunch of wavering, gutless milquetoasts.
     
  6. triggerjob

    triggerjob New Member

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    Fast & Furious began under the Bush administration, which is why the Republicans are giving it the short shrift.

    The only way anything will get done is if local law enforcement does it.

    You guys need to realize that niether Political party gives a damn about the Constitution, and there is virtualy no difference in any of their policies only in there timing. This is why the Teaparty revolt is so critical, its an attempt to "republicanise" the republican party.
     
  7. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    That's not entirely correct. Operation Wide Receiver was run from 2006-2007 under Bush but the Bush admin worked with Mexican officials and actually tracked firearms.

    Operation Fast and Furious began in 2009 and differed significantly from OWR in that Mexican authorities were not made aware of it and there was no way to track weapons once they crossed the border.

    But you are right that neither political party gives a damn about the constitution.
     
  8. triggerjob

    triggerjob New Member

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    I've often wondered if Ramos and Campione stumbled across F&F and that's why they were railroaded. We'll never know because the terms of their commutations require them to keep there mouth shut.

    As far as more "details" on F&F,you might try infowars.com
     
  9. opaww

    opaww New Member

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  10. AcidFlashGordon

    AcidFlashGordon New Member

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    In Katie Pavlich's book, Fast and Furious, she shows just how little protection the whistleblowers got concerning this case. And she shows how those responsible for this atrocity weren't punished but rewarded by promotions. Several ATF agents have basically had their careers ruined by their (promoted) superiors and nothing has been done to correct that situation. It's time for everyone to contact their elected officials and let them know that these people responsible for this failed project, which has resulted in the deaths of two U.S. agents, have to be brought to justice.

    I would have thought that Ms. Pavlich's book would have galvanized investigations and brought more public outcry against this ineptly run program but it seems that is not the case. Unless and until MORE public outcry occurs, this whole mess could end up being flushed down the toilet. There are too many high-ranking officials, up to and including Holder and Napolitano, that were involved but are lying about that involvement.
     
  11. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Project Gunrunner started under the Bush administration in 2006. Operation Fast and Furious began in 2009. F&F was the brainchild of the career bureaucrats in the Phoenix office of the BATFE and the federal prosecutor for AZ.

    Project Gunrunner is an ongoing BATFE operation.

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/programs/project-gunrunner/
     
  12. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Everybody is simply moving on.

    Channel 7 can't sell enough hard-on pills, with

    F&F as a story, anymore.

    Congress is finding fresher issues with which to pander

    votes.

    And onandonandon...
     
  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Don't blame the media for lack of progress on Fast and Furious: Blame the sorry foot draggers in congress. Republicans in congress made Holder the focus of their "investigation" when the focus should have been on the DEA, the BATFE and Holder.

    CBS gave secret recordings they obtained to Grassley and Issa. One tape is a converation between a gun dealer who sold walked guns and Hope MacAllister, a BATFE agent.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20108965-10391695.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

    The perps who devised and ran Fast and Furious were career employees of the BATFE. F&F was done with the blessing of the BATFE higher ups and the US prosecutor for AZ and others in the DOJ, the DEA and, perhaps, other agencies.

    Republicans in the US congress don't have the guts overhaul the BATFE because reining in the BATFE would inhibit the ability of future anti-gun Republican presidents like Romney and Big Daddy Bush to violate our Second Amendment rights. Anyone remember Ruby Ridge?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  14. beastmode986

    beastmode986 New Member

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    ok im out of the loop right now. what are they investigating all i know is f&f lost track of firearms and a border patrol man was killed can someone fill me in please
     
  15. Durangokid

    Durangokid New Member

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    The Dems used the JFK shooting to pass the 1968 Gun Laws. They used this to add the BATF to the enforcement of thier gun laws. The Dems used used the 1950s gang "Zip" guns to ban enexpensive handgun imports. Obama and Holder intended to use this F&F to pass more gun bans. The Republicans may not have carried on a strong fight. That said however, they were the only ones to even question it. No Dems have tried to investigate this crime.:mad:
     
  16. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    Really? Sourcing Alex Jones?
     
  17. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Yeah, I have to agree - Alex Jones is not a source I would ever rely on.

    If you want the straight scoop on Fast & Furious, go to the blogs of the two guys who broke the story and hooked ATF whistleblowers up to Issa and Grassley: Mike Vanderboegh and David Codrea. You will need to dig a little, but the info is there.
     
  18. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Firearms were allowed to be illegally sold to straw purchasers in Arizona and elsewhere for shipment to Mexican cartels. The Mexican authorities were not aware of this operation. There was no way to track the firearms once they crossed the border. Over 2000 weapons were delivered to cartels this way. The BATFE ran the operation.

    Several hundred Mexicans are dead as a result - firearms found at the scenes have serial numbers matching those sold in the straw purchases. At least two American federal agents were killed with rifles bought for F&F: Jaime Zapata and Brian Terry.

    The Mexicans are not happy. Several ATF agents have come forward as whistle blowers and had their lives turned upside down in retribution. Several mid- and high-level ATF people have resigned or been transferred out of the Arizona office.

    The congressional investigation seeks to find out who authorized a plan that could not succeed: that is, allow weapons to cross into a foreign nation for use in criminal activities with no way of tracking the weapons once they crossed the border. Also, since the ATF is part of the Department of Justice, they want to know who knew about this operation when.

    DOJ chief Holder has withheld many subpoenaed documents and may find himself in contempt of congress.

    The theory out there now is that this operation was set up to fail exactly the way it did in order to illustrate the need to clamp down on gun laws in the U.S. In other words, they allegedly sacrificed hundreds of lives to push an anti-gun agenda.
     
  19. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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  20. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Active Member

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    A boat load of truth in that statement. We need more republicans and less Republicans.


    As Mike Church says, if you don't know what "little r" republican means, you are part of the problem.