Expert handgunner input.....

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by mrwintr, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    I need an expert with semi auto handguns to try and help me out.....
    I recently purchased a new Springfield XDS .45 and have put Pierce mag bases on the 5 round mags for a three finger grip, plus I have the 7 round extended mags.......my problem, or question, is when I shoot this handgun with both hands , say at 10 yards, I am pretty much all over a 6" circle area, but when I shoot it strong arm only at the same distance I am almost cutting the same hole with both the 5 round mag and the 7 round mag..........?????????
    Any idea what I am doing wrong with this little powerhouse when holding with two hands, because I am not sure why they scatter so. It makes me think I must be doing something wrong, but I shoot my other handguns quite well with 2 hands..?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  2. PappaJim

    PappaJim New Member

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    I am certainly no expert, but I have an idea what might be the problem. One two handed hold that has been taught is to push forward slightly with the shooting hand while pulling back slightly with the supporting hand. Could it be that you are using this hold? With such a small handgun in that large of caliber, that hold could be allowing the gun to torque left or right when you fire it.
     

  3. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    Yes I do apply that technique some, not overly exaggerated, but I do a little bit of the push pull style....? I figure, obviously , that I am doing something wrong with my left hand, weak hand, just not sure what.
     
  4. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    It sounds like your supporting hand is causing you to corner sights some. I used to have a similar problem so I started getting away from the three dot sights and looked more for something like a Hinie Straight Eight set up. If I didn't want to change sights I'd paint the center of the rear sight to where I could stack the two and it got me to shooting more straight. After a while I got to where I could feel the difference and could shoot with either sights. I practice at longer distances (25 yds. up) so my mistakes are much easier to see. But really the stacking dot thing works really well no matter the distance.

    Look at how the sights on a Sig Sauer P series. They have a square on the back sight that you stack the front sight on. Where that front dot is that's where your round will go. I've always believed it's easier to stack two than line up three.:)
     
  5. PappaJim

    PappaJim New Member

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    Front Sight Training Institute in Las Vegas has a two handed hold that is slightly modified from the one your using. It might be beneficial for you to research it out. You can subscribe to their email list on their site.
     
  6. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    Drum Junkie....I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "cornering your sights", but I can see how the different sight configurations may help....but I am not sure what is available for the XDs at this time...I will have to look into that.
    And Pappajim I went to that website and subscribed, but couldn't find any information right there. I ordered there free DVD...? Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  7. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    Most sights have a little daylight on either side of the front blade when looking through the rear sight. Cornering is when you allow that daylight to be smaller on one side or the other. Like I was saying, you can line up the three dots but still not be straight. Because two of those dots can be closer to each other than the other side.
     
  8. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    Remember, being off a little at the point of fire is magnified over distance. A fraction of an inch becomes an inch in a few feet. At a few yards even more.

    I don't claim to be an expert. I just thought I'd pass off things I've learned form shooting over the years.
     
  9. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    I understand now, and you are right I have always had trouble having open space on each side of the front sight, I would much rather have a target setup where the front fills the rear notch completely, but I am not sure why it is I can shoot this XDs .45 so well with my strong arm, one handed, versus two hands..?
     
  10. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    That's why I was saying you may be pushing the sight a little with your support hand. I used ot use snap caps and find a spot on a wall and practice working thew trigger. If I was getting a little wobble when the trigger broke then I knew I was pushing or pulling a little. Sometimes when you are owrkign a trigger with your strong hand the front cna move a little. You body understands thi sand you try to compensate a little with your support hand. This can happen without you being aware unless you are paying attention pretty close.
    It might be a flinch in your support hand in anticipation of recoil as well. If this is the case then the snap cap thing wont be of much use.

    Bottom line is there is some type of movement when using a support hand when you're shooting. If you have someone that shoots with you have them watch you when you shoot to look for any type of flinch or push. And maybe adding a little dot under the center of your rear sight allowing you to stack your front and rear dots could help there.
     
  11. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    Thanks for the thoughts on this, because I think you may have nailed it. I have noticed when dry firing this little gun that no matter how hard I try to squeeze off the trigger, with a two handed hold, the gun jumps a little side to side...I figured it was because of the crappy trigger break on this small gun, but I need to work on that and find a way to stop that from happening.
     
  12. hq357

    hq357 New Member

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    My stepdad has the xds 45 acp and the both of us cant even hit the damn x on the targets at the range! Lol we were shooting from about 15 feet it is the only 45 acp he has. with the 9mm glock 19 i could hit the x almost every time so im wondering is it the small gun that makes me shoot bad? or the 45 acp that makes me shoot bad? If i had the new xds in 9mm would accuracy improve or still be the same? I have no other experience with 45 acps ive shot them but i was never really aiming at anything so is it the gun or the round? With the glock 19 i am very accurate my skill with shooting pistols on a scale to 1-10 is probably a 6.5
     
  13. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    No, the pistol is very capable...I was tearing out one big hole when shooting with just my strong arm, but it was when I held the gun with two hands that my groups really opened up. It has been way to hot and humid to want to go out shooting lately, but I am going to try some different techniques, two handed, next time I am out.
    The XDS .45 is certainly capable of good accuracy, but it is the human factor that causes the problems.
     
  14. hq357

    hq357 New Member

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    By strong arm do you mean with just one hand? I will try it with one hand and see if it is true my right hand is probably my strong arm Ive only shot the xds with two hands n and im not accurate both with or with out the pinky extension. When i grip the xds i grip it hard enough were i can see the imprints of the gun on my hand my right hand i push forward left hand pulls back maybe the recoil of the small gun causes it to twist because of my tight grip? Im not sure ive never tried one handed i will try next time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2013
  15. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    Yes, I am right handed and was shooting with just my right hand and doing very well, but as soon as I would use two hands it went down hill....I will figure it out eventually.
    I agree about the gun leaving imprints in your hand, it has a very aggressive grip design. I have been using the Pierce base plates to get that
    3rd finger in there, they help and you don't have to hold it quite so tight.
     
  16. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is next to impossible to 'coach/instruct' someone on the internet. If you know a person who has some knowledge about handgun marksmanship you should get some first hand coaching.
    Secondly, the 45 acp (my nephew has the same gun) is the wrong caliber for a 'little' gun, too much velocity lose, and excessive recoil. It is a 'lose,lose' situation!!! :eek:
     
  17. hq357

    hq357 New Member

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    So it is the gun and the 45? If i had the xds chambered in 9mm do you think it would be more accurate? The xds is a fine little powerhouse i like it. but it does kinda smack my hand. it feels like i smacked a robots ass cheek when i shoot it :D
     
  18. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I don't really see a problem with a short .45. The .45 ACP round is a low pressure, lowish velocity round to begin with. I also don't find the kick to be that heavy. When you get into reloading you find out that there is very similar overall energy in a .45 or a 9mm. I run some 9mm and .45 loads that use the same amount of the same powders. So in internal ballistics you realy have about the same energy onboard. The .45 tends to cycle a little slower (have lower slide velocity) than some 9mm pistols.

    Recoil perception can have a lot to do with grip size and shape as well. A narrower and shorter grip will tend to be more uncomfortable under recoil, because all of that recoil is now focused on a smaller area, and you have less leverage to counter it with. A pistol that is uncofortable to shoot may also induce more recoil anticipation and more jerking, and trying to compensate, which all affect accuracy.

    Handicaps you get from a short pistol are usually a smaller and harder to hold grip, and a short sight radius, that do not help with shot to shot accuracy. Some times with two hands you put pressure on the frame of the gun in different locations from shot to shot. The grip may slide around, you may grip tighter or looser which can change point of impact.

    When shooting Sevice Pistol bullseye competition we only use one hand. 25 yd timed fire, 25yd rapid fire and 50 yd slow fire. Getting a good non shifting grip is important, it is why you will see some aggressive checkering or even hammer peened stippling on a lot of the bullseye guns, just to ensure that the gun stays put in your hand from shot to shot.
     
  19. mrwintr

    mrwintr New Member

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    I doubt the gun will be any more accurate, but the user may be able to handle it better. I personally don't find that my .45 XDS is very hard to hold on to, just tricky finding the best grip for shooting it with 2 hands.