End of Posse Comitatus,Abrogation of the 5th Amendment and Writ of Habeas Corpus.

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by KalashnikovJosh, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Military given go-ahead to detain US terrorist suspects without trial | World news | The Guardian

    WH OKs military detention of terrorism suspects - CBS News


    This has also been covered by http://drudgereport.com/

    Some blogs of interest-

    http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/12/14/house-lawmakers-pass-defense-bill/

    Sipsey Street Irregulars: It begins. Predatory regime of both parties provides citizenry with another reason to shoot first and ask questions later when a raid party comes to your home.

    We Have Crossed the Rubicon by Eric Peters

    The CLAIM by the supporters of this odious Enabling act is that they won't be going after "common criminals" and only going after those affiliated with "Al Qeefda" or whatever.
    Yet,we've all seen government get power directed at one specific object,and then expand it from horizon to horizon.This is what the entire problem with government has been about for at least 100 years.
    Even longer.
    By our 2nd presidency,we were having problems.
    I again refer to the Alien and Sedition Act and the resulting Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions.

    I would also like to remind readers that the REALITY is,that the Department of Homeland Stasi has on NUMEROUS occasions labeled those who's beliefs fall under the "constitution loving,God fearing,right wing" - "homegrown terrorists".



    So we again see the open-ended newspeak designed to counter anything but the broadest interpretation of this new government power-
    "or associated forces"

    Of course,this verbal finagling falls way short of the REALITY of this new "law"-

    If they can make you disappear,and not have to satisfy the 5th Amendment nor writ of habeas corpus,then they can take you for any reason and there is no challenge available to actually determine that you fall within the scope and purview of this "law". That is,unless you count a kangaroo court "military tribunal",which does not answer to the Constitution nor provide any sort of public purview where the actions of this government can be seen by all.

    No way to make sure the law makers AND enforcers aren't breaking the very law they are using.
    No check,no balance.

    Nada.

    "Shut up. You don’t get a lawyer."- Senator Lindsay Graham.

    Being able to arrest and detain anyone it chooses without having to answer for such actions is the absolute hallmark of a totalitarian oligarchy.

    Welcome to the Peoples Demokratik Socialist Nanny State of Amerika.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  2. neilage66

    neilage66 New Member

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    A sad day which bodes ill for the Republic.

    We have been declared the enemy...again.
     

  3. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is the entire US defense appropriations law. For your reading enjoyment; go to page 359, Subtitle D, Detainee Matters, and read sections 1031-1037.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867pcs/pdf/BILLS-112s1867pcs.pdf

     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  4. opaww

    opaww New Member

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    Buy more ammo but buy it quickly
     
  5. Firearms4ever

    Firearms4ever New Member

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    This is just great........NOT!!!!
     
  6. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    i hate working with PDF stuff. More:


    (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS
    16 AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
    17 (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The require
    18 ment to detain a person in military custody under
    19 this section does not extend to citizens of the United
    20 States.

    21 (21 (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The require
    22ment to detain a person in military custody under
    23 this section does not extend to a lawful resident
    24 alien of the United States on the basis of conduct
    25 taking place within the United States, except to the
    1 extent permitted by the Constitution of the United
    2 States.
     
  7. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    As I have said before and I will say again, the greatest risk to the Second Amendment isn't attacks aimed directly at it. Its a whole lot bigger than that...
     
  8. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    And so it begins. They will turn this around and use it against us. Anyone who does not comply with their ideals will be labled a terrorist and will never see the light of day again. This is the begining of the end of a free America. Some of you may think this will not happen, but look at the thousands of examples of this exact situation throughout history. :mad:
     
  9. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  10. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    And there lies the rub.
    Why are senators like Graham saying stuff like this-

    If this does not apply to US citizens?

    My guess is that if they declare you a "terrorist" or link you to a "terrorist organization",then are they claiming you've "forfeited your citizenship" as a result?

    IMHO- this bill,like many others,if not ALL of them these days,are so full of legalese and carefully worded contractions,that we'll have to see what actually happens as a result of its passing.

    And what Graham and McCain have to say about this bill is telling as to the intention of its drafters.

    Historically,we can look to the Alien and Sedition acts to see how such broad legislation can in fact affect Americans- John Adams had a senator arrested under that law for referring to Adams as "his rotundness".
    The poor guy spent 2 years in jail for that remark.......

    In any case,we've seen the Obama administration ignore the 5th amendment when it came to Anwar al-Awlaki:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/world/middleeast/secret-us-memo-made-legal-case-to-kill-a-citizen.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    Personally,I'm not against using special forces or even mercenaries hired by the power of congress to issue marque of reprisals,to hunt down and capture these people,and bring them to face Constitutionally sanctioned justice- and if they resist,then so be it,they get popped.

    But a missile strike without even attempt to capture?

    On closing this post,I'd like to point out that Judge Andrew Napolitano,a man who is intimately familiar with the law as he has served in the justice system,has also raised the alarm about this issue along the same lines as others-
    That this bill gives the military the power to detain Americans indefinitely,without access to due process or other protections as per the Constitution.

    His show,Freedom Watch,airs on the Fox Business channel every night of the week.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  11. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Did you happen to read where they can declare a US citizen a terrorist?

    Did you happen to see the other documents that identify a terrorist is someone with more than 7 days of food, OR MULTIPLE FIREARMS, OR EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF AMMO?
     
  12. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    The Judge (Judge Andrew Napolitano) talks about this with a couple representatives here-

    Freedom Watch


    Listen to what Congressman Justin Amash says about what we should do if this kind of stuff actually does happen.

    He also says that the language in this bill is intentionally misleading........AND that they pulled a Nanny State Nancy/Obamacare:

    they "have to pass the bill before they can find out whats in it......."

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, they have been able to do that since the wonderful "patriot act" was passed many years ago. A US citizen can not be detained by the US Army.


    Show me.
     
  14. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    I'd like to see it too.

    alsaqr,you should follow that link and watch that show,they only keep it there until the next week's episodes have aired.
     
  15. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Get real man. How may US military special operations folks lives would you waste in an attempt to capture a terrorist puke who just happens to be a US citizen?


    Josh, i like that cartoon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  16. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    I also suggested letter of marque and reprisal,and the use of mercenaries.
    In any case,the burden of obedience to the 5th amendment is on the US government and its employees.

    Either we have a Constitution,or we don't.

    There is no middle ground.
     
  17. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    LOL,yeah its a good one.

    :D

    seriously-
    go watch that episode of freedom watch.
     
  18. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    I got another good picture too.

    What with government thinking it can make everyone buy a product or pay a fine to be a "good citizen",suggestions of national ID,drones and billions of dollars being poured into a growing and federalized Dept of Homeland Stasi run Janet Napolitano police state,and now this topic's issue-

    [​IMG]
     
  19. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    Hey I have that pic on my Facebook! Gotta love it!

    Well lets see, considering how many lives we have "wasted" in the attempt to capture Osama, a non-citizen, I'd say its rather shameful.
     
  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Remember when military veterans and others who complained about the "patriot act" were called traitors by draft dodger Cheney? Americans were assured that law abiding folks had nothing to worry about. The slippery slope got much steeper and slicker with the passage of the "patriot act".

    The grade is now about 60 degrees and slicker than snot on a door knob. It will only get worse as the two political parties in DC compete for the destruction of our Constitutional rights.