Employer superceding my 2A rights?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by KBlue, May 7, 2010.

  1. KBlue

    KBlue New Member

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    I work a low level position at a giant, faceless corporation. I can't carry my gun into the office, which I completely understand. However, they also tell me I can't even keep a gun LOCKED IN MY CAR. I realize I'm parked on their property, but this still doesn't seem right to me. what do you guys think?
     
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Texas and several other States have addressed this issue by specifically allowing handguns to be secured inside vehicles in parking areas. Ohio is not one of the more gun friendly States, but check the laws in your state to see if you have any protection.

    How are they going to find it anyway? Do they do random car searches? They are boing to get in a world of litigious hurt if they do.
     

  3. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure which states are which as far as this goes. But, in some states you have the right to keep a gun in your car no matter what your employer says. Check your state laws. I am sure someone with info on your state will chime in soon. I still would not take anyone's word for it without checking personally.
     
  4. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    It is their property, and they have every right to make the rules.

    Is this something in the employee handbook, or did you ask them about it? How would they know if it was locked in your glovebox?
     
  5. hewhoisiam

    hewhoisiam New Member

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    The long and short of it (had a friend who had a similar issue) is that they have the right to fire you for bringing a weapon onto their property, so if you're parking there and they own the lot...

    However, if you park on the street and it is legal to keep a firearm in your car (don't know the laws where you are) then they can't really do anything about that. I'm assuming it's a not the best part of town scenario, where you're going to want to park in the nice, well-lit, company owned lot for security reasons. (my friend went to work at 4 AM and it was a lot with security, etc) So if you take the 'park on the street' route, you leave yourself open to vandalism and the theft of your car (and firearm)

    Another note: if they want to fire you, they'll find a way so however you go here, digression may be a better route than pride.
     
  6. Last Crow

    Last Crow New Member

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    There was a write up about this in the NRA’s American Rifleman not long ago. I don’t remember the details, except that you could lock your gun in your car. I don’t remember is it was state or federal a law or a court ruling.
     
  7. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Most States have some degree of definition of "property" that includes Private, Public and "A Public Place".

    Inside the building or a secured parking area not generally open to the public is Private Property.

    The street/sidewalk/right of way is Public Property.

    A parking lot that is open to the public is a Public Place. While it is private property it is open to (for example) pedestrians passing through.

    Most people do not realize their suburban front yard is considered a public place.

    The rules about what can go on on private property do not necessarily extend to a public place.
     
  8. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Get a good car alarm system with an ignition kill switch and perhaps some form of notification system,and a good bolt-in safe for your weapon.

    Park in a public place with confidence.
     
  9. Last Crow

    Last Crow New Member

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    Ohio employers have the right to ban guns in parking lots.
    Business Management Daily
    It's your right! Prohibit guns in parking lot
    As the economy falters, there are reports that attendance at gun shows is way up. In fact, the gun industry is one of very few experiencing robust growth.

    What does it mean? Well, chances are now greater that one of your employees will bring a gun to work—and that could be a threat to employee safety.

    But there is good news. A recent 6th Circuit Court of Appeals decision has specifically upheld the right of Ohio employers to ban guns in locked cars on company property. You can and should have a clear policy prohibiting guns at work and in the parking lot. You can discipline employees who violate that rule.
    Recent case: Gary Plona, a UPS employee in Cleveland, parked his car in the company parking lot and locked it. Plona had signed a company policy that clearly stated guns were not allowed on any company property, including in locked cars in the parking lot.
    When police became aware of suspicious activity in the parking lot—activity unrelated to Plona—they asked for permission to search Plona’s car. He consented, and police found a loaded gun under the front seat.

    UPS fired Plona, and he sued the company, claiming that Ohio public policy allowed him the right to carry a firearm. The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals disagreed and upheld the discharge. (Plona v. UPS, No. 08-3512, 6th Cir., 2009)

    Final note: Gun laws differ across the country. Another federal appeals court recently upheld the right of an employee in Colorado to keep his gun in his locked car at work. That case was based on a specific state law allowing people to store guns in their locked cars—even at work.
    It's your right! Prohibit guns in parking lot - Business Management Daily
     
  10. KalashnikovJosh

    KalashnikovJosh New Member

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    Its a shaky subject-property rights versus the Second.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and state my personal bias-

    I think that big corporations are public entities,and as such,the property they operate for the sole purpose of doing business is public,and the rights of the individual trump any expectation of private property protections there.
    On the contrary,a small business owner who is not incorporated and maintains the workplace on a more intimate personal level has more rights over that property.

    I might be totally wrong,but I just cant agree that corporations,who are not individuals,should be able to trump individual rights.
     
  11. Wolfie

    Wolfie New Member

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    My thought process would be in a perfect scenario the 2nd would be put before civil laws and a work places terms of employment...but it doesnt seem to be the case, I know where I am moving to they have been making changes that private car parks cant sign a "no gun policy" but its still shaky on the application of that in regards to law enforcement.
     
  12. KBlue

    KBlue New Member

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    Thanks for the responses, everyone. My handbook of gun laws for OH says I cannot carry on corporate property or in corporate owned vehicles if the employer prohibits it. but it doesn't state specifically whether or not an employer can ban me from locking my piece in my car. The head security guy gave us a speech on the first day that we're not allowed to have weapons in our cars or on our person, and im sure its in the employee agreement i signed as well. I'll have to ask an LEO or lawyer next time i see one. are any of you guys or gals in similar situations to me? how did you or would you handle it?
     
  13. lkd

    lkd New Member

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    Not to put too fine a point on things, but odds are you're an "at will" employee, and your employer can fire you for any reason. Any. Reason. Or none at all.

    Parking lots, if part of the company's property, are insured the same way as the buildings are, and it's highly likely the insurer has explicitly dictated a "no firearms" clause as part of their coverage.

    So, unless you live in a state where the state law clearly trumps the company requirements, you're definitely at risk of losing your job if your firearm is discovered.

    On the other hand, having worked at a couple of large companies, I've had more than one colleague who has carried their pistol to the work parking lot. They usually lock it in a safe under the driver's seat. Turns out, even if the company had reason to search your car, they can't force you to open the contents of a locked safe in your vehicle without having the police and a search warrant (and if it gets to that point, you're staring that whole "at will" clause in the face again :) )
     
  14. DrGonzo11

    DrGonzo11 New Member

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    We have exactly the same policy at my employer and as far as I can tell they have every right to dictate what is done on their property. That is why I park across the street and walk the extra 30 yards. Problem Solved! :)
     
  15. brandy

    brandy New Member

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    A gun in your car is about as useful as teats

    on a bore hog if someone goes "postal". Since you're gonna get canned if it's in your car and IF you believe you really need it, then get a small cc pistol and carry it on your person in a belly band rig. (deep concealment) and don't talk about guns at work.
    I knew many ladies who worked at companies in the ghetto, all their companies forbid guns on premise, all of them had guns in their purses.
    NOBODY has the balls to search a ladies purse!:D
    One was accosted by one of the "victim classes", she shot him several times in his privates as they were exposed (off company property). No charges filed against her and nobody ever asked to search her purse. (and this was in NY state!)
    Guess I'd rather look for a new job than be dead.
     
  16. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    if you work on private property then it is their right to make any rules they want.

    I guess you need to make the choice

    do you want your gun or your job. without your job you may not have your gun.....

    Now me when I go to class (College) I pack every night as It is a long walk in the dark at 10:30 when class gets out. I park in a different part of lot than most people. So I know that is caught I will get kicked out of college but I can live with that vs being stabbed to death. I keep it in a inner compartment on my backpack next to my wallet.
     
  17. vezpa

    vezpa New Member

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    I somewhat agree with companies not wanting weapons kept in cars, However I would still keep mine locked in my car and I would keep my mouth shut about it.
     
  18. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    Do you have a CCW?

    If you do, why would you care that your employeer bans guns in the workplace?

    Just about every employeer bans guns in the workplace simply because some lawyer convinced them that doing so would limit there liability. Never mind the safety of the employees, let's just worry about managing the shareholders risk...:confused:

    It's this attitude among company owner that causes many of us to scratch our heads and simply ignore the policy. :rolleyes: I CC every day, company policy be damned.

    If your a responsible adult this will only be a problem if your forced to shoot at work and if that happens you can rest assured your life will be more valuable than your job.

    TACK
     
  19. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    The Bill of Rights is an acknowledgment that individuals have certain rights and a guarantee that the Federal government will not step on those rights. While many of the first 10 amendments have been incorporated against state governments, 2A has not (I'm not counting the 9th Circuit Court's decision because it is the most overturned court in the country).

    These rights do NOT apply to personal property. You cannot come onto my front lawn or wander into my living room and rant about your personal ideological beliefs with a megaphone. I have the right to kick you off my land and this isn't an abridgment of your rights. The same goes for 2A. As irrational as these clowns are who post "No Weapons Zone" signs at businesses, they are not stepping on your rights when they do.

    You might consider calmly asking your HR department why these signs have been put up. Most likely they'll say something about "making employees feel safe". You can then present them with statistics showing that an armed populace is a polite populace, and that you feel distinctly unsafe as a result of these signs. You might also ask if they have consulted with their attorneys to determine their liability if a criminal -- who won't be deterred by the signs -- does shoot up the place and no one is able to defend themselves. Remember to mention that the police do not exist to protect people from harm.
     
  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good post. The legislators in the state of OK believed that too. This is why we have a law that allows guns in employees cars in company parking lots. It took awhile for the law to take hold because Whirlpool, Weyerhauser and Remsey winch fought the law in federal court-and lost.