Effect of EMP on de-energized equiptment

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by 97powerstroke, Jul 22, 2008.

  1. 97powerstroke

    97powerstroke New Member

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    I know that most if not all electronics will be affected but what if the equiptment is not turned on or is de-energized at the time of the event ? For instance say you leave the battery cables unhooked on your bug-out vehicle or something like that.
     
  2. rickrem700

    rickrem700 New Member

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    Emp

    I am pretty sure weather connected or not the EMP pulse kills everything, it would be only after the EMP wave disipates that anything would work again, of coarse in the event you are in the vacinity of a EMP pulse you are also in the vacinity of of the shock wave to come after it(EXPLOSION) and then the sun tan seconds after that, this is not conducive to good health, better to be some where deep, very deep!!!
    I will add that anything new with any kind of tecknology behind it probably will not work ever again with out repair to computer parts and what not, It is my thought that I would have the very most basic of engine and keep all its ignition system down below with me and mine so as to protect it, in hopes to have any kind of transportation after the big one go'es off.
     

  3. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    What I've read says it doesn't matter if electronics are switched on or connected to a power source. They could be fried by an EMP.

    An EMP sends a surge of electrical energy over everything. Anything with small circuitry designed to run on a very low voltage (that is, anything with an integrated circuit) may be damaged.

    For this to be a substantial issue, however, a very large nuke must be detonated very, very high over North America. The nature of the earth's own magnetic fields would wash the EMP from, say North Dakota all the way south to Texas and very far to the east and west. However, not too many folks have a) a very big nuke or b) the means to get it very, very high over North America and detonate it.

    A nuke detonated in a city would release an EMP, but it probably wouldn't carry far. If you were close enough to be affected by the EMP, you would probably be more concerned with the immediate blast and fallout.

    (Just something to think about: most everything we use has integrated circuits, including trucks and cars, planes, watches, home appliances, computers, networking gear, phones and more. A well-placed EMP would be really, really bad and arguably would switch the country off -- literally -- in an instant. It doesn't take much to shield electronics, but this is rarely done.)
     
  4. FALPhil

    FALPhil New Member

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    Faraday cages are easy to build for protecting against emp. For small appliances, you can even use aluminum foil; larger appliances can be protected with a mylar space blanket. But, you must have a deep grounding rod to hook up to.

    A friend of mine clued me in on what he does to protect his laptop and radios - he lined a 20mm ammo can with closed cell foam, and bolted a grounding strap to to it which is connected to his grounding rod. When the equipment is not in use, he stores it in the ammo can.
     
  5. 97powerstroke

    97powerstroke New Member

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    Thats kinda what I figured, things will be fried no matter what. I've got a 76 F-250 that's my bug out rig and I think the only thing I would have to worry about on that thing is the ignition control module, maybe the alternator and voltage regulator. I have an old pionts style dizzy I could throw in there too.
    Might want to protect the CB radio to.
     
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    If the equipment in question doesn't have any low-voltage components, you may not be affected (depending on how close you are to the blast). Older vehicles will probably be fine. Newer ones with computer-controlled fuel injection systems and timing won't do too well.

    Or have a backup.
     
  7. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Two years ago on the Discovery channel they tested a portable EMP generator to be used by.....you guessed it - the Police. They drove 3 cars through the generated field and all of them stopped dead - forever fried were the ignition systems components and computer.
     
  8. JWIII

    JWIII New Member

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    EMPs can also be caused if a large enough object impacts the Earth "i.e. a comet, etc..." An object a few hundred yards in diameter would send a EMP across the entire earth.

    That would be a SHTF situation, the only likely way to survive would to be under ground. You'd have to stay there for awhile too.

    An EMP would wipe out anything electronic; such as our electro-scopes.

    What I don't know is basic ways to protect equipment from an EMP blast. Anyone know? Like a simple way; underground, lead box, etc...? I have no clue.
     
  9. genie

    genie New Member

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    Read this guy again! Example: Safest place to be when a bolt of lightning hits your immediate vicinity is INSIDE a CAR. A car IS a "Faraday Cage". Regarding an Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) such as originates with a nuclear explosion, such energy transmission is stopped or deflected by a metal enclosure, like a car body.

    Couple of other points: The EMP's strength DECREASES as the SQUARE of the distance from it's source. That means if you are say, 2 miles from the source instead of 1 mile, the strength is 1/4 as much, 4 miles it's 1/16 as much; so, you're lucky the farther away you are. The EMP is the least of your personal concerns, though, as the pulse of mixed short-wavelength radiation will fry YOU but maybe not your electronics gear.

    Quite likely, survival success will depend more on finding non-contaminated food, having your firearms ready to go, only people around you that you can trust completely, and when you proceed down that road, personal electronic gear may be all but forgotten anyway.

    Just my spin on this deal.
     
  10. genie

    genie New Member

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    They MAY have called it an "EMP" generator, but that also was most likely a crock of bull****. What they did was disable the car's "computer" by using appropriate control frequencies which induce stray currents in the wiring harness and kill the computer. 20 years ago, experts rumored that cops would be doing this routinely as eventually all cars would be computer-run as the old non-EFI cars gradually disappeared. Those rumors quietly died, why, I don't know. Maybe it was true! Ask a COP, they are all truthful, right?
     
  11. genie

    genie New Member

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    You need'nt get all too concerned about grounding, if the stuff being protected is completely surrounded by metal, electrically conductive like foil, sheet metal, etc., no electric charge can exist on the INSIDE of that enclosure (Faraday's Law). The "pulse" would simply induce a charge on the outside, which would very quickly dissipate into the atmosphere, and not affect the "guts" inside.


    [/QUOTE]
     
  12. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    They drove the car through a large metal frame which appeared to be a large armature or electromagnet which I am assuming was energized with a tremendous amount of current. I don't know if it produced a "pulse" per say, but it sure did the job! It certainly wasn't the type or size of device the cops would set-up on the spot like "spike strips".
     
  13. Jables

    Jables New Member

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    My personal opinion is the fact that we have become too dependent on our stuff and not ourselves. If you don't still garden, maybe put one in next year, learn how to can. It's going to be about the basics. How to dig a well, store food without refrigeration, etc. We will probably be somewhere equal to the 1500-1600's. I would stock up on flour and salt and learn some trades, like how to butcher your own animals, run your own smoke house. The thing with the SHTF event is non of ous are going to be fully ready for it. After having the major ice storm this winter and without electricity for a large amount of time, I've change a lot of my priorities. I will enjoy my stuff while I have it, but I'm trying my hardest to not depend on it. My buddies and I are looking to plan a survivalist week this winter with tents and sleeping bags and bug out bags. Just hunting and fishing for food. I suggest anyone tries these type of exercises. Basics are everything because that's what we'll go back to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2008
  14. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    ON STAR govt control new permanent license plate

    In 1980 VW sent out a service bulletin to all American dealers that a VEE DUB with electronic fuel injection would die on the road if a nearby 100 watt CB radio would que the mic. This would screw up the ECM and the car would die with no explanation. The IC chip in the Engine Control Module (computer/ECM) is just a semiconducter that needs yes/no signals and hi/lo signals of system voltages to operate and if those tiny controlled circuits get a strange signal transmitted to them from a wiring harness it will screw everything up and it is history, car dies.

    If the car the 'Cops' might be chasing has Sat Com it could be shut down from space. This is good as far as i'm concerned because most gang bangers drive newer cars. One thing to think about when purchasing a new vehicle is the satelite link on the car. GM "Hughes Satellite" tracks all your "ON Star equipped" vehicles once every 9 minutes. This is if you have the service or not. Who knows where the data storage is for this?

    This will throw you for a loop if you are looking for a parasitic battery drain.

    This tracking feature has the ability to tell the satellite everything your doing, and when On Star can unlock the doors on a vehicle this is abseloute proof that they can control the PCM(Powertrain Control Module), BCM (Body Control Module), and anything else on your vehicle through the UART bus line (basically a LAN) any time for any reason. When OBDII (On Board Diagnostics 2) came out and was mandated by 1996 to be on all cars and pickups under 8500 GVW since 96 model year sold in the USA and G8 nations for the tree huggers, these features were in the works. LO Jack was the start.

    This is probably not planned by any one person, it just happened this way. Works good for control though.

    This is some technical explanation and real world application of it.

    sincerely wrench
    <striving to enter at the narrow gate>
     
  15. Joshua M. Smith

    Joshua M. Smith New Member

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    <raises hand>

    I am back in college at age 30, about ready to graduate.

    I have two majors, maintenance technology and industrial electrician. Wrote my first computer program before I was 10, Dad's an electrical engineer for GM, and I enjoy building computers almost as much as building guns.

    Those are my qualifications.

    The EMP weapon is real. It's in development for the military. Additionally, nuclear and thermonuclear weapons have a big EM pulse as a side benefit. They will fry electronics.

    Electronics are easy to fry. When building a computer, one should wear a grounded wrist strap. The static electricity that you can see is on the order of 3,000 volts. On the other hand, solid state electronics can be toasted with around 30 volts. Nasty.

    While Faraday's law is correct, there is a minimum thickness that one must have to protect the electronics.

    Example:

    Take a portable radio, TV, whatever, and surround it completely with aluminum foil. I can guarantee you that you will still get reception of the stronger stations. And radio waves are a weak form of electromagnetic radiation.

    Additionally, if you were to direct an EMP toward a rabbit ear antennae like set up, you'd see a spark travel between them. This is inductance and it's bad when it comes to electronics. Car bodies will do the same thing - there's nothing to ground them.

    In fact, most electronics are not grounded well enough to be protected.

    Short answer: If a powerful, long range EMP insues, we will no longer have electronics of the type we know today. A tube set may survive, but that's about it.

    FWIW.

    Josh <><
     
  16. genie

    genie New Member

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    Wrench, good post! Interesting!
     
  17. genie

    genie New Member

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    Josh, I too, went back to college at 31, actually, and finally got my B.S. in Engineering long, long time ago, when only a small part of our world was being "supervised" by computers.

    Recent events have me convinced that less likelihood of that big "pulse" jarring us is more and more the probability, despite all the saber rattling. The "global economy" presents stakes far too high to allow it to happen, except, that is, as part of a terrorist venture which will never provoke the kind of overall response worldwide which we are talking about.

    It is still excellent advice, as given above somewhere, for all of us to get more involved in several areas few of us are: Skilled Trades- get good at electricity, plumbing, structures building. Self-sustenance- start growing as much of your own feed stuffs as possible, including animals. Don't expect to become a vegetarian, it won't work. ALL Americans should take a hard look at becoming more self-reliant.
     
  18. genie

    genie New Member

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    It took a loss of "electric convenience" to get your attention! Of course, we ALL are much too dependent on "suppliers"- they are the "enablers" of today's society. The survivalist activity you mention is excellent training. If you guys are TRULY bent on changing your outlook, you all must prepare to accept and endure HARDSHIPS, something we Americans (and others) do very piss-poor at. Tell On-Star to shove it; we can unlock our OWN vehicles without keys.
     
  19. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    How many here are capable of going to bed without the A/C running when it's 90 degrees outside with 90% humidity?
     
  20. genie

    genie New Member

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    I slept that way throughout childhood and young adulthood, until I was on my own and could over-rule the old-man's conditions for family life. And that was in Chicago, hot as hell in summer!

    (Then I moved to Vegas, and 90 degrees was cold, then Phoenix, even worse!!) :cool: