dumb newb cleaning mistake...how to fix?

Discussion in 'Cleaning and Maintenance' started by CZ Newb, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    My Springfield Saint is the "B5" model and came with the A2 front sight and the short non floating handguard etc. Ive been shooting with a bipod mounted to the handguard..which is mounted to the barrel.

    So I recently had a Rave140 trigger installed and also a midwest industries freefloating handguard. So now, at least theoretically, the pressure thru the bipod wont be flexing the barrel blah blah.

    Soooo, that being said, when I went to the range last week with the new setup, I had high hopes. But....I think I had one decent group and the rest was pure rubbish. Id shoot a couple ok shots, then the next shot would be 1.5 to 2" off shooting at 25 yds.

    I left the range quite dejected and feeling like I wasnt getting much of a return on my time and money invested. if im not getting better at something, im not enjoying it very much.

    i felt in my heart there was NO WAY my technique was THAT inconsistent.

    I knew the gun was dirty and was hoping that it was messing up my groups.

    So I cleaned it.

    I shot a few groups after cleaning only with patches (before I had a jag that fit lol), then i shot a few groups today (right side of target) after i had run the brush thru etc.

    DSC_0117 9 29 and 9 30 cropped.jpg

    So I went from massive flyers (last week before any cleaning) to essentially no "flyers". I didnt measure but just going by the eye, at least a couple of those groups are under 1MOA.

    While its nothing to brag about, its also nothing to be ashamed of. The only group that is somewhat out of place is the last one which is the middle of the right hand target. That group was 100% mental error lol. I didnt have as good of a position setup and I was letting range stuff distract me and I was just snapping the trigger lol.

    I didnt all of a sudden get better technique....a cleaner barrel made a significant difference.

    Ill tell you how disappointing the shooting was last week.....the target got thrown away at the range lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
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  2. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    My experience with the ruger 556, sks, and my sons 6.5 creedmore has been the opposite.
    I keep the bolt, chamber , etc lubed and reasonably clean but only punched the bore once on the sks and 556 , not at all on the 6.5
    The more rounds thru the rifles the more the groups tightened up to astable point and remained consistent there at about 2000 rds down the barrels.

    My bolt rifles never got a chance to foul over 3 to 5 shots to check scope and maybe 8 shots over an entire season hunting. Then of course I'd clean , punch the bore and store until the next season so that tendency never had a chance to occur.

    His Beowulf pistol build only had about 40 rds thru if total so no idea what its going to do other than kick like a mule lol.

    Folks have different strokes and every gun doesnt nessaczrily act exactly like every other gun though.
     
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  3. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    im sure there is a balance involved. keep in mind my barrel is nowhere near squeaky clean. I just quit running patches thru it when I got tired of it after like 50 patches

    there is probably a need to clean the brush itself with brake pats cleaner or something like that in between brushings if u got it really dirty. otherwise you are possibly just putting some of the same carbon back into the barrel

    of course the flip side is that those rifling grooves are there for a reason lol. if they are caked with gunk then part of their reason for existence is being nullified
     
  4. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Go to your local surplus store and buy an M16/M4 cleaning kit. It will have everything you need in it
     
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  5. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    some 50 yd action from today.

    have been shooting a lot of 25yd lately so im zeroed to 25yd

    moved back to 50 for a 10 shot group. first shot was a few inches high as it should have been. Then I clicked the scope down about 16 clicks. Just guessing really. it probably should have been more like 12-13 clicks but we were in the ballpark anyway

    something like .71" so 1.4 MOA. The 5 in one ragged hole aspect of it was nice I guess

    DSC_0119 cropped 50 yds 9 shot group.jpg
     
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  6. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    I did an "ammo test" today. Sorting some factory ammo by weight blah blah. The way I did it was super complicated and sort of self defeating but I learned a lot in the process lol

    Here are some groups I did right after the test. Actually the right and left corners were the 1st and 2nd "control" groups for the test. The upper and lower corners were after the test.

    That top corner is probably my best 4 shot group so far. something like .189" or thereabouts. So .76 MOA. Bottom one is something like .271 if I remember

    DSC_0118 upper right 4 shot groups crop.jpg
     
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  7. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    There was 1 other groups probably a titch under 1MOA and then tons of groups probably between 1.5 to 2.5 MOA and also a few really bad groups. Like I said, the way I did the "test" was really complicated and ill advised but ill know better next time.

    Ill document it so I can make fun of it later

    DSC_0118 cropped.jpg
     
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  8. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Well-Known Member

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    Ill advised? If you are learning more about the gun and ammo it likes most, and gaining experience...I would not call that ill advised. Some of those groups are looking pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  9. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    only ill advised in retrospect lol. took way too long to set it up etc.

    I had numerous ammo types....then I sorted each type by weight lol. Ended up with 14 different sets. So i was going to do 14 different 4 shot groups.

    What really complicated it was that I decided to shoot 1 shot at a time for the 14 groups. 1 for the first type, 1 for the 2nd type and so forth. Soooo I had to load it into the magazine in order lol. 14 in order then the next 14 in order and then of course I had to shoot them in order and not lose my place etc. I was doing this so that the barrel wasnt cool on the first groups and hotter on the last.

    But it also meant I had to shoot, move to the next corner of the target diamond, then the next, then the next etc. So obviously the individual groups would have been way better if id just shot each 4 shot group at one time without all the resetting the position each shot etc

    most of the really good groups on the paper were shot after the test and were shot with 4 shots in a row as would normally be done

    good practice though and lots of fresh air
     
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  10. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Well-Known Member

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    I see what you mean! You could have done that a bit easier. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. CZ Newb

    CZ Newb Active Member

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    Way more efficient time spent today. Sorted some factory ammo by weight the other night. Didnt use it for about a week. Went to range today and shot it. In a sense there wasnt much concrete info gained because I forgot what was what and nothing was labeled etc.

    I do know that some of the groups were shot by "sorted" ammo and perhaps some were not.

    Also I am trying a ghetto method of stabilizing my barrel....which i wont mention just yet lol. (no big deal)

    2 nice groups under 1 MOA (50 yds using a bipod off a bench). 3 more groups between 1 and 1.2 MOA.

    Worst group 1.82 MOA. hopefully some of the bad groups were with unsorted ammo but there is no way to tell. In any case its all store bought factory ammo

    Avg of nine 4 shot groups something like 1.33 MOA

    I guess there is progress being made lol. Could be much much better if decent match ammo were readily available. cest la vie

    DSC_0121 cropped zip tie groups.jpg
     
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  12. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Just an aside. Even if your weighing your bullets if your using different brands of ammo thr impact point will vary from brand to brand . Some mot much. Others quite a bit. Mostly due to different powders used by different ammo makers


    Not enough to affect say self defense shooting. But plenty enough to drive one batty if shooting for really tight groups on paper
     
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