Drivers Questioned On Guns At Federal Checkpoint. (AKA-> HARRASSMENT)

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by MoreAltitude, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. MoreAltitude

    MoreAltitude New Member

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  2. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another great 2a non-story.
     

  3. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Irresponsible pricks gave the gestapo the excuse they needed.

    If people conduct themselves in a responsible manner, the gestapo will not have these excuses.

    I certainly have no love for the Gestapo, but the shytheads that supplied them with an excuse are just as bad.
     
  4. MoreAltitude

    MoreAltitude New Member

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    I did not intend this post to highlight 2a issues, but to say that this is "non story" while it is posted in the legal and activism section of this forum is in my opinion incorrect. How about the 4th amendment? How about driving along and suddenly finding yourself at one of these checkpoints, being asked questions about your guns/ your ammo/ your whereabouts, and threatened with a search, under the guise of anti-littering campaign??? If the gov't is that concerned about it, do the RIGHT thing and post officers in place to catch individuals in the act, I'd be fine with that, and applaud the fact that people are out there keeping our wildlife areas clean and safe. Just don't treat everyone as if they are guilty until you can search me and prove my innocence!!!! That my friend is where I find the issue of erosion of personal rights in this case. Additionally, if I lived anywhere near this area there would be no problem, as I would be out there gathering all the free brass I could find...
     
  5. shadecorp

    shadecorp Active Member Supporter

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    I have seen ranges shut down because of the trash.
    Once while entering a open free shooting area,
    where we shot quite often.
    we were stopped and offered trash bags to help in a clean up.
    we took the bags, and after shooting,
    we filled the bags with other folks trash.
    dropped them off at the gate and were thanked.
    And were told that some Adam Henrys left rather than help.
    And so,
    the area was soon closed due to the trash problem.
    I know that some of you will snort,
    stamp your foot,
    shake your head,
    and say how dare "THEY" expect us to clean up after ourselves,
    thats an assualt on our rights.

    "GAG"

    And to the other complaint.
    A few times while in hunting areas,
    have been stopped and asked,
    any firearms onboard?
    what game are you after?
    and were reminded of where it was legal to hunt
    and
    what was legal to hunt.
    Offended?
    hell no.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  6. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    They wouldn't be searching my car without a warrant. Next time you see someone leaving trash tell them about it. We don't need police to tell these pigs to clean up after themselves.
     
  7. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    First and formost this is ALEX JONES website, right? If you spend more than 2 minutes a day there you are brain damaged.

    Second, I have no problem with efforts to keep these public lands open to shooters, If the shooters are leaving the areas trashed, they should be punished.

    Third, they call it an education campaign, buit I distinctly heard one of the officers tell a motorists to go back and pick up some brass or get a ticket. That sounds like an enforcement effort/threat. Who si to say the guy didn't pick up all his brass and give it to someone else?
     
  8. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    i read this and almost posted it myself but then noted that it came from Prison Planet/Alex Jones and reconsidered. As Robo pointed out, they went about it the wrong way. I have seen park rangers do this quite frequently. I think depends on the general attitude in the particular office more than anything else. If I were stopped at that checkpoint I would treat it as I do any other checkpoint, if they ask me questions that are not intrusive or leading in nature I will answer them. If they start threatening they will get nothing at all- I'll tell them to get a warrant or I'm calling my lawyer. That sort of intimidation is in no way appropriate for something like that. I am a responsible shooter, I pick up my brass (and all I can find that is not mine) as well as any garbage I can cart off (none would be mine because I do not litter). I don't need a lecture or a reminder or threats from a bunch of over-eager park rangers.

    While the program targeting littering seems to me to be well intentioned (and I support it) their execution left a lot to be desired.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  9. Blueguns

    Blueguns New Member

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    I'm not sure what to believe here. I haven't seen any reportings of the story outside of infowars, so I'm unsure what to think of this. Anyone have an account of the story from a reputable source?
     
  10. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

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    If this story was true, the officers would have served the community better by going to the shooting area and educating shooters who don't know how to use the resource. Intimidation only causes people to lose respect for law enforcement.
     
  11. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    What you must understand is Officers do not want to go into an uncontrolled area with dozens of armed people shooting. Controlling the situation is next to impossible w/o a dozen officers. Forest service officers are NOT very tactically sound. They are service oriented, conservation minded, but NOT cops in the normal sense of the word. They have degrees is Botany and Forestry, not criminal justice.

    Secondly, these areas are HUGE. One cannot just "go to the shooting area" and educate the shooters. There are thousands of acres of areas where people are allowed to shoot. To try to go "the areas" would take hundreds of officers. With limited resourses, operating a checkpoint near the park entrance to try to deal with the situation is a reasonable use of limited resourses.

    Harassment? Get over your self!
     
  12. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    The first officer in the video says and I quote

    "So make sure you pick those up after your done and pick up all your brass for us"

    He's talking to people entering the area. If your dumb enough to ignore the request of the officers not to litter and then on your way out tell them you shot but don't have the empties, then you deserve to be cited. Fight it in court if you want but the citation being given by the officer seems legit to me.

    We have much better things to worry about than Park Rangers trying to keep the parks clean by asking that you pick up after yourself. This story isn't about the Park Rangers trying to shut down the range just about keeping it clean.
     
  13. jgoertz

    jgoertz New Member

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  14. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Bingo!!!!!
     
  15. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    I have seen the Public Lands become more antipublic over the past 40 years. There has always been "Foot Prints" left by humans. Tepee Rings old wagons and remains of shacks are Historical places. Old dumps are protected and studied by students on the taxpayed funds.

    We now have BLM Rangers, Forest Rangers all manner of police local state and federal enforcing laws on the peoples land. Shooting and hunting on Public lands are the number one targets of this enforcement. Campers and hikers drop tons of plastic water bottles and jerky bags along with their pets turds every where. Did you see LE Agents warning any "Greens" or sending them back to pickup their junk. Hell, no. Don't be fooled hunters and shooters are being pushed off Public Lands.:(
     
  16. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    The irony of it is that the dedicated hunters and shooters like many of us here are more environmentally sensitive than the so-called "greenies" that you speak of yet the "greenies" are shouting about the environmental impacts that "we" are causing but in reality it is probably the newer members of the firearms community who are causing 95% of the problem and there are a bunch of "greenies" in that population.
     
  17. InDefenseofLiberty

    InDefenseofLiberty New Member

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    Here is the non whack job link for the story as I have the same opinion of Alex Jones as most.

    http://www.kvoa.com/news/drivers-go-through-checkpoint-at-redington-pass/#!prettyPhoto/0/

    The supreme court stands behind the fact that road blocks are unconstitutional but allows them anyway under the guise of public safety. I wonder what our founder would say about that? Oh yeah we already know.

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

    For those of you who argue that this is ok I ask you to read all the amendments and quit cherry picking which to ignore/enforce. You may want to spend some time on the 4th. From a former LEO trust me there is a lot more wrong with this checkpoint than there is right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  18. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    With all due respect Robo, if there weren't an adversarial between LE and the general citizenry there would not be any reason to control the area. It should be that both parties have equal control. I know this is not how it is, but having been on the receiving end of having LE show up when I am out in the desert target shooting I can tell you that my friends and I had a great deal of fear for our safety because of the heavy-handed way that the officers "controlled" the situation, this when we had the wisdom to clear and safe the firearms, set them down and step away from the shooting bench with hands in plain sight, as did everybody else who was with me (three of us) when we first saw their vehicles approaching from a quarter mile off.
     
  19. MoreAltitude

    MoreAltitude New Member

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    It's a very tricky topic isn't it? Some very good points and opinions have been brought up regarding this story, and I respect every one of them.
    One such point brought up was that this story came out off the site InfoWars, to which I admit I had no experience with before (I picked this story up from Drudge). After researching this site, I do feel that many of you were right, and that a large portion of it's content is WAY over the top, and needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. That being said, I still find this story newsworthy, and it's message to me is one that highlights a growing problem which needs attention and at least discussion!

    I think we all agree that if you want to pile your garbage on public grounds, most of us will have a very big problem with that. I’m a shooter too, and also amazed at the amount of trash that is left behind by others who use these areas. Once again, my beef with this whole thing is that personal fully legal property in your car, and or admission of littering, constituted RAS or PC for these searches. Do you think that is right??? I've been lied to all my life then because that's not what even my grade school civics class taught me concerning basic rights.

    Finally, if the direction of these responses continues to focus on LEO's intention just to combat littering, then why were there multiple arrests for individuals with warrants as stated in the article???? How did these people have their ID's run through the system given it was just a littering checkpoint???? Lets take this further, if this type of stop is now ok, then one could easily argue that random checks for anything deemed contraband could now be allowed. I'm not prepared to concede my rights in that way, nor should I be expected to. With freedom comes responsibility, and I exercise both with passion...
     
  20. rhyno13

    rhyno13 New Member

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    I made the border patrol in Arizona try to get a search warrant to search my vehicle as I was coming back from Nogales. They tried to tell me that I had no choice and I quickly informed them that I know the law and I will not be bullied. They were not able to get the warrant and I was able to continue on.