Draw, Rack Slide One-Handed on Glock 23?

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by TekGreg, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I just found this YouTube video and was amazed that it was even possible! The question is, do you think this could be trained to the point it could be done with gross motor skills so it could be considered a life-saving tactic (FTF, FTE when wounded), or will this always require fine motor skills? Please explain your thoughts and reasoning, if you'd be so kind.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMsAvWOEj-k&feature=related"]Condition 3 One-Handed Rack[/ame]
     
  2. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    Potential life saving skill, with several caveats on how and where. You're the victim of a BG. Round one from him catches you off guard, and connects, your arm is now incapacitated.
    If you aren't locked and cocked, you're screwed, unless you develop a suitable ability to do a one handed Rack.
    Now, this would also require that you can shoot effectively one handed. Most people are good shots with two on a range. How many are good with one in a panic, with only one arm?
    Or the off hand? I hated off handed training, until I got used to what I was doing.
    Second situation, BG is in close proximity, and you have to use your free hand to parry a knife/pipe/insert weapon here.
    Being able to rack em up one handed, again, comes in very handy here, as well.
    Could you do it injured? Yep. As long as you're not incapacitated and retain your focus, you can, with practice, do this.
    Now one other thing on this? You better make sure you have a gun that CAN be done in that fashion. You get a beater with a stiff slide? If you can barely do it two handed in a good situation, how well do you think you can do it with one hand in a crunch?
    (It would also benefit you, depending on just how seriously you take your personal practices, to practice doing a one handed cross body draw and rack with your weak hand, as you could actually be hit in your dominant arm.)
    Man I sound paranoid. (Yes, I've done just what he did before. Been years, and it was a quality firearm (1911, Colt.)
    But it does take practice.
     

  3. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Check out some of the IDPA "course of fire" designs. They focus on those exact scenarios.
     
  4. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    The more I hear about this IDPA, the more interesting it sounds. I'd like to, after some more practice, shoot steel or pins, but the IDPA is what really sounds interesting.
     
  5. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Who's got IDPA experience here and have you ever shot this tactic in a course? Have any advice on this move when people are trying it?
     
  6. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Not sure that the particular action shown in the video would be permitted for safety reasons but many CsOF do include one handed strong and weak hand firing.

    International Defensive Pistol Association - Tactical Journal Article
     
  7. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    They do not teach that tactic in any IDPA course or shoot.

    Now, I have had quite a few small weapons tactical shooting and training courses, and some will teach you one handed slide racks and reloading as part of the course, and you would never see them used in a sanctioned IDPA competition, but in real life.....one just never knows. :cool:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzG3Dz7-Lis&feature=related]Tactical One Handed Pistol Reload - YouTube[/ame]
     
  8. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

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    Video 1, a negligent discharge in the making!

    Video 2, one way to manipulate the slide one handed.

    Tek,

    One handed manipulation of the slide has been around ever since they made the first slide. Why using two hands is more prevalent is probably because, we found using two hands to shoot is easier, faster, better! That is, usually.....for most beginners......and, usually the one handed manipulation skills are considered advanced, and usually reserved for 1-on-1 or classroom teaching by most schools. For those new to defensive type shooting or have not as yet attended formal training, video 1 may come as a surprise.

    Two hands will/may, provide us a more solid platform for shooting that first shot, provide a more stable repeat shot control, and using two hands to manipulate gun handling is more efficient, because we can use two hands simultaneously to accomplish things like loading.

    Video 1: It's not what the guys is doing, or how he is doing it, but the way he appears to be going about it.....that may be leading him into a negligent discharge......sooner or later.

    I don't recommend carrying most pistols with an empty chamber. Doing so, and using video 1 method to become battle ready is one method, however it has not proven to be as efficient or safe as carrying a quality gun, designed for condition 1, in a quality holder.

    There are however many reasons why we may need to manipulate the slide one handed. One of those methods to do so, is by dragging the slide along our body and/or hook the rear sight on some body gear to facilitate manipulating the slide effectively enough to load a round, similar to video 1. Another method is demonstrated in video 2. There are many more. Most of the methods we use, can be applied to almost all carry type handgun.

    The problem I have with video 1, it appears the person is trying to be as fast as possible.....meaning, as he practices this skill, he will get better and better, faster, and faster, until his maneuver becomes somewhat of a "trick shot". Many toes, knees, ankles and legs have been shot by doing similar type "fast draw" manipulations. There is some value learning to manipulate the slide with one hand using the method he is demonstrating in video 1, however I would caution students about the speed and approach.

    We do not publish these methods, because we feel they are much better demonstrated to the students live during a class, allowing the student an opportunity to perform and develop these skills in a controlled environment under the watchful eye and guidance of our instructors.

    Can we be more effective using two hands to shoot and manipulate our handgun.....yes, by all means. We should also keep in mind it is called a "hand-gun" for a reason. If it were designed initially to use two hands, it would be referred to as a "hands-gun" and Colt would have probably put two grips on the Peacemaker (I'm so glad he didn't because that would have spoiled the balance for twirling!!).

    Handguns, pistols, revolvers......they were designed to shoot with one hand. Doesn't mean we cannot use two hands, and most people shoot and manipulate their handgun easier and better using both hands. However, especially in a self-defense reference, consider there may come a time in a fight when we only have one hand to use our gun. Gun fighting is not only about being able to hit a target, it also includes handling the gun....manipulating to keep it shooting.

    For most students who have attended intermediate or advanced handgun training, these one handed skills are known well. Just about every quality school teaches them. And, the methods we use for one handed manipulation of the slide are gross motor skills, not minor.....loading magazines one handed is another story.....!!!

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  9. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Sometimes you don't even need hands. :cool:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlMz2sCDCA4]Michael shoots his .45 with his feet - YouTube[/ame]
     
  10. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

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    Thanks for posting......I went to find this video to include in my previous post and couldn't locate it......this guy is amazing!

    .
     
  11. PowerViolence

    PowerViolence New Member

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    this is the best.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7stLQvsDX8]Ninja Style - Slow Motion - YouTube[/ame]
     
  12. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    I'd swear that is a trick slide. When you watch it on full screen and he reaches his shoulder in slow motion, during that moment of no movement is when the slide racks, which makes me suspicious. That, or he has the strongest Moob's I've ever seen.
     
  13. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyGUYjCruY]How To Perform A One Handed Load by Rob Romero - YouTube[/ame]

    I stand corrected. Dang.
     
  14. BB98338

    BB98338 New Member

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    After looking at this I got out my SW1911 to see what was up. As hard as I tried I could only get the slide to move a tiny amount, same with the Kahr P9. Maybe the springs on these are just too stiff or the guy is like 3X stronger than I am.
     
  15. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    It's all in the shoulder action...but then so is pitching, and we all can't throw a 98 MPH baseball..:(

    Watch the vid again, look how loose the slide to frame fit is on those pistols. The springs may be stock but the slide and frame have definitely been worked...
     
  16. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    I was thinking they were greased up like an Alabama Pig.
     
  17. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Don't be fooled by this guy.

    I guarantee he's running a 10# spring or lighter, and the lack of recoil in his shots guarantees his ammo would not meet minimum power factor.

    I have done this with a G17 and G20, both were brand new and unfired.

    None of my used guns will do it. Not even the g34 with 13# spring.
     
  18. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

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    I think Rob Romero is legit and his video and guns are unmodified. With just 10 tries I can more than half way rack the slide on both my G22 and Kimber. I'm an old guy....seems to me with just a little more work on technique I could easily load just one round from either of these guns.

    .
     
  19. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Racking the slide on am empty gun, and doing it with a loaded magazine inserted is awhile different story.

    From experience, I guarantee you that's no stock gun

    I'm not just an inexperienced schlub here. I regularly win at sanctioned IDPA events and trophied at the IDPA World Championship two weeks ago in Florida.
     
  20. EagleSix

    EagleSix New Member

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    My post was in reference to the video posted where Rob Romero demonstrates his "Ninja Load" with various pistols. He performed each loading just 1 round. That is what I had in my Kimber and Glock 1 round.....apples for apples...

    Now I don't doubt your knowledge or experience, I never questioned it, I simply stated my opinion. I wasn't picking on you or anyone else. I felt you gave your opinion, and I gave mine.

    However, when you proclaim to make a "guarantee", you are trying to convince me of your opinion, as in, it's a definite knowledge. Although I can surely appreciate and respect your contribution, and I recognize your accomplishments at IDPA games, that doesn't change the fact.....in only a few attempts, I can almost perform the ninja loading trick, with my stock guns.

    If you believe me, fine. If you don't believe me fine. I did however want to clarify the, "Racking the slide on am empty gun" assumption you made as well as your guarantee statement.

    With that all aside, I do appreciate your input and wish you congratulation on winning at your IDPA game.

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