Does this sound funny to anyone?

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by Hot Sauce NARC, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    I bought a bushnell 4200 series 6-24X40 for my savage model 12, and when the guy at the gun shop mounted it he put a lazer in the bore and said he was boresighting it. When i got home i noticed that the elevation knob was cranked all the way up, but he didnt bother to touch the windage knob. When i first shot the rifle it shot super high and to the right like 12 inches each way at 100 yards, so i started adjusting, and to get 12 inches of adjustment on a scope with 1/8 in clicks i had to crank the windage almost all the way to the left to get it to hit on target. The ammo i made made a bit of a difference after i zeroed with crappy factory ammo i shot some of my own loads and they shot way to the left. so now i have a little bit more adjustment i can use left or right, but its still not anywhere close to being at the mechanical zero of the scope.

    dose this sound anyways familiar or am i just way out on this one ?
     
  2. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    It sounds like either the scope was not mounted in line with the center axis of the bore, or you have a long range scope rail with built-in elevation, for long range shooting, so you don't have to max out your scopes' elevation knob to make long range shots (500+ yds). A way to check is with a small level. Level the action, then level the scope. Maybe the scope is mounted incorrectly (mis-matched rings, rings not seated in their mounts, etc.) If you need to dismount the scope, don't worry, while laser bore sighters are nice, you can do the same thing by eye on a bolt action. Place the gun in a solid rest, remove the bolt, sight the target through the barrel and align the center of the bore with the center of the target. Now look through the scope and see what your sight picture looks like. Adjust the crosshairs to the target center. This is not as accurate as a laser bore sighter, but it will place your first shot on the paper.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009

  3. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Personally, I haven't dosed for many years.

    As for laser sighting, I have found that they always get you close. The only difference has been in elevation, not in windage. I do my own laser sighting usually at a much closer distance than 100 yds. The sighting targets are made to comp the distance 'tween the center of the scope and the bore. When I get to shooting at 100 or so yds, normally I have to bring the scope down, but I rarely have to adjust left-right.

    No, that does not sound normal. Sounds like the guy who did so had no idea what he was doing, imo. It is pretty simple.
     
  4. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Ha ha, I was thinking that too... :D (I have nothing to bring to the table, just thought that was funny).
     
  5. Rimfire McNutjob

    Rimfire McNutjob New Member

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    I have a 4200 6-24x40 and it should not be doing that. I would take the scope off and check the alignment of the rings. I hope your scope tube is not bent. If it is I would be on the store to replace it then take it to a smith and have him lap the rings and mount the scope.
     
  6. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    Thanks guys

    yeah i Just realized that i have been spelling Does wrong for the last 16 years wow I is dumb

    Yeah i hope somthing isnt bent or imporperly manufactured. I do remember when i fixed the level on my crosshairs (the gunsmith got them all cattywampus) there was a small gap between the bottom of the front scope ring approximately 1/32 of an inch. I am relativlr sure that my mounts are flat, no elevation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  7. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    ????between the bottom of the front scope ring and what? The scope? That would mean your rings are not the right size, or the scope isn't set in the rings properly. Or is the gap between the scope ring and the scope mount? In either case, it sounds like you got screwed by the gun shop you went to!
     
  8. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    it was between the bottom of the tube and the ring, but when you put any pressure on it the gap dissapeared.
     
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Wouldn't that mean that when you put pressure on it, the scope was moving down? That sounds very not good, but i don't know much about optics. Have you called the shop to ask about that gap yet?
     
  10. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Brother, you got a world of stuff wrong with that set up.

    I would agree with RL, I don't think your scope is in line with the bore of the rifle. And if your rings aren't tight, and there is ANY play what-so-ever, you would be better off just taping the scope to the rifle. :rolleyes:

    So, you got a Savage Model 12 with a 6x24 power scope. I would assume this is a hunting or target rifle? Not a tactical or competition stick, right?

    First off, you need a scope base that has a built in MOA ( I like the Badger Ord ones that come with 20 MOA built right in ).

    Then you need a set of rings that were designed for THAT size of scope. There shouldn't be ANY play when correctly mounted. No light or anything showing. It should be dead nuts tight, but not with crushing force.

    Then, when you mount up the scope, the best piece of equipment that I can recommend is to use a Collimeter to get you right on target. It will also allow you to compare if you have any "can't" in your scope if you have aligned it correctly with the bore.

    Me thinks you got screwed with this scope mount. It's entirely possible that it was done unintentionally though.

    If the stock holes on the action are not dead nuts with the center of the bore, and the guy mounted your scope with two scope mounts, without the aid of a scope rail, that could be the reason he had to crank so much into the scope to get it close to want he thought was dead center.

    I can never remember with so many names. Where are you located Narc?

    JD
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Man, I don't know ANYONE in that part of the country to recommend.

    I'll ask around the shop and see if the couple of guys who pop in there can recommend a real good guy....
     
  12. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    Thanks JD

    Ill look around for someone and if all else fails ill do it myself with help from here. Im not mechanically retarded but if the parts dont fit i guess its hard to make it work right. I thinkThe gun smith did say somthing about the scope being ofset but i may be wrong he mumbles alot. But i guess if he cant get the crosshairs level (had to do that myself) then he probably couldnt get the scope on right.
     
  13. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Like JD said, the problem could be with the alignment of the mounts. The best thing for you to do now would be to remove the upper scope ring halves and see how the scope lays in the bottom halves. If it cradles nicely with no visible offset, then you are good to go. Are the scope ring bases tight to the mounts? Are the mounts tight to the receiver? I am assuming the receiver was drilled and tapped at the factory? If so, I doubt the mounting holes were drilled off-axis. Go through each step of the process carefully to determine which step was done incorrectly. The receiver holes should be degreased and a drop of loc-tite placed in the threads before attaching the mounts. The upper ring halves should be tightened incrementally and diagonally front to back, like tightening a head or valve cover. Degrease the internal portion of the rings as well as the scope tube where it seats in the rings also. Some rings need to be lapped to achieve a perfect seat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  14. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    Ill check this weekend and report when i can my home computer took a big dump last week. yes it was done at the factory, and i have mounted several scopes into rings and never had a problem before, but this is just weird. Ill let you know
     
  15. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    well i took the scope off the gun and looked everything over really good. it seems as if the mounting holes on the rear of the receiver are just off of center a hair, but if i look from a different perspective they look perfect so i dont know, what i do know is thet when i screw the back weaver mount into the holes it looks as if it is angled differently than the front mount, so i am pretty sure there is something wrong with the mount. is there any good way (besides eying it) to determine if the mounting holes are out of line? i guess if all else fails ill send it back to savage and say fix it, and maybe if i ask nice they will chamber it for 220 swift for free :D
     
  16. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    What kind of equipment do you have available?

    The first thing we would do in the shop would be to mount up the receiver in the mill and check the alignment. We usually drill out factory screw holes for one size bigger anyways, so that we can gaurantee the alignment.

    In a "other" case scenario, a bench vise and you can use a set of dial calipers to compare the measurements front and back.

    In a worst case, you can take your basic measurements and see where the holes stand. :eek:

    Now, another option is to mount up a one piece rail and hand lap the scope mounts, but then you are getting into a territory where you need to do it right, or you are going to end up making things worse.

    What have you got to work with?

    JD
     
  17. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    It seems improbable to me that Savage could mis-drill the receiver. They use a jig for that. Try turning the screws in by hand to check that the screw is perpendicular to the hole - whoever mounted your scope may have cross-threaded the screws causing the mount to seat at an angle. Also check the holes in the mount - they could be drilled off center also, causing the mount to sit at an angle on the receiver. You mentioned Weaver being the manufacturer of the mounts, not the brand most people use for bench rest accuracy. It's possible, but I doubt Savage messed up -
     
  18. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

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    JD: i dont really have much equipment except for hand tools and a vice. I will check tomorrow to see if i can get good measurments with my dial caliper, maybe something will stand out. Lapping rings sounds hard and i have no idea what is involved in doing it right. I would definatly pay a premiun for a gunsmith that could fix these problems for me :D

    Im relativly certain that the weaver mounts are screw up so they will be replaced with more quality parts if i find that the mounting holes are on par.
     
  19. ItsmeShane

    ItsmeShane New Member

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    are you talking about the Bushnell elite 4200? the guy at the gun shop was recommending one of the bushnell elites to me. either the 3200 4200 or the 6200.