Does Requiring a CCW Decrease Crime?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by ninjatoth, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    Has anyone ever thought honestly about the real point of states requiring CCW permits vs constitutional carry states, as far as to why? Some people say that if you eliminate permits and have constitutional carry, the crime rate in the entire nation will rise because everyone will be carrying guns, acting like the wild west and accidental discharges will skyrocket because the general public is just one cell past ape, and carrying a handgun is rocket science to us, just too difficult without training, but others say that if you eliminate permits and institute constitutional carry, the crime rate will drop because everyone will be carrying because it's not complicated and criminals will fear the nation becoming like the wild west, so no one is going to take advantage of other people they way they do now. What do you think would actually happen if the entire nation was constitutional carry? My honest opinion is that violent crime and robberies as a whole would drop significantly and you would never hear of accidental discharges etc, but...you might see and increase in domestic violence outside of the home or crimes of passion, because there would be a higher number of people carrying and some things will ultimately go wrong, but random crime for sure and crime as a whole would drop, in my opinion. What do you think?
     
  2. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Whenever posing a question such as this, it is important to start with facts and base your supposition on that to have a firm base for your argument. First, there were fewer than a dozen face-to-face, "High Noon" type shootings ever reported in e "Old West." The idea of the face off duel was started by magazine and newspaper writers of the time that needed material and were being encouraged to make travelling to the West to sound fun and profitable. This premise was later picked up on by movie writers to add drama to their B-westerns. There is therefore no factual basis to believe citizens living in the West ever behaved in a fashion any different than those living in the East, South or North and certainly not blaze away at each other just because they were armed.

    Secondly, every state that has historically established a will-issue carry law or policy has seen a drop in violent crime that then stayed lower on average. Florida took only nine months to see violent crime drop 40%. Also, the argument that there would be all sorts of accidental discharges (AD) doesn't work because, even under constitutional carry, an accidental discharge in public can get you cited and or convicted of a crime, which removes your constitutional fit to carry. Those that were careless, stupid, dangerous or otherwise prone to misuse firearms would be disqualified from doing so by the law itself. Therefore, any law passed that allows carry is self-regulating because you either have a good reason and valid target and are exonerated from prosecution, or you you are at fault and, if successfully prosecuted, will have your right to carry removed.

    That's just a quick rundown of the scenario as I see it. A more in-depth study could be don with all of the laws and dates implemented and crime rate reduction, but I think you get the idea. I hope this helps to clarify what most CCW states have found to be true in their statistics.
     

  3. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    People are not as dumb as the liberals think they are. If constitutional carry was alive their would be no rise in the number of accidents. People who are likely to carry a gun already have a permit. Training for CCW does nothing to prevent accidents. All CCW training does is prepare you for the legal responsibility of carrying a gun. Hunters safety does more to prepare one for the safe handling of firearms.
     
  4. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    those who have said such things have been proven wrong many times over. if anything, it's been proven that decreasing gun restrictions on LAC's have probably had as much an effect on decreasing crime as much as anything. states that have the least restrictive gun laws and Castle laws have much more reduced rates of violent criminal acts, because the citizens are afforded the opportunity to defend themselves.

    but crime is never going to vanish completely. it's not possible because of human nature. man has been killing man, since the dawn of time. Cain killed Abel with a rock. not a gun. the invention of the gun was just a more efficient way for man to kill. the tool is still irrelevant. it's the intention of the person doing the killing that is the mitigating factor.

    even if you armed every man, woman and child, there will still be murders, robbery and rapes. until you remove evil, greed and lust from the soul of every living human being on the face of the earth, those criminal acts will be with us until the last person is gone from the face of this earth.

    as of now there are five states that allow Constitutional Carry without a permit.

    1. Vermont.
    2. Alaska.
    3. Arizona.
    4. Wyoming.
    5. Arkansas.

    five states that Open Carry is legal without a permit.

    1. Idaho.
    2. Montana.
    3. New Hampshire.
    4. Colorado.
    5. Nevada.

    other states are also drafting bills to introduce Constitutional Carry as part of their states gun laws.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry
     
  5. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    More guns like more cars will provide more deaths, Im pretty sure I can state that as a fact. Sure there are gonna be some classic accidental discharges that kill/ injure innocent people but thats what happens when humans have things that have dangers associated with them, they call them accidents for a reason. Yes, Screwdrives kill and so do hammers, do we really need to BCG them FOOG?????

    What I cant say is if all the additional dead is a bad thing, its probably a good thing if it goes the way I think it would. The more dead and injured by the firearms would be those that we call "violent criminals", if more people carried, there would definitely be a big spike in POS dead scumbag MFer's. So which is more important, trying to prevent one of 10000 different possible scenarios synonymous with the improper operation of any of 1000 caustic materials or mechanized devices like a firearm or one, assault with intent to Kill or injure?

    The Libs would have you believe their plan somehow prevents the 10,000 variants of Firearm Tragedy without empowering scumbags that would kill their grandmother or your wife for the 20 bucks in her purse.

    Yup, if you encourage freedom by arming the Citizen, your damn right the body count will rise and for the better. Heres a few more positive outcomes.

    -Less cops in danger, more high paying jobs in undertaking and Backhoe operations
    -Less Prison cells needed but more big sturdy cardboard boxes (Recycled materials of course)
    -Less Violent criminals to injure Prison Guards
    -Much lower recidivism rate, dead phuckers dont re-offend ever
    -911 can prioritize responses to help LAC with real health emergencies not just scrape them off the pavement every time.

    Its nearly all good, even if there are a few sad outcomes that would happen because more people carried.
     
  6. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that requiring CCWs does work to decrease crime through indirect means.

    1. Without licensing, there would be fewer states willing to allow concealed carry at all.

    2. It gives the legal system another tool to prosecute people who have been determined to be ineligible from possessing firearms.

    3. It gives police the right to question a "questionable person" about the lump under his shirt and to remove him from the streets if he shouldn't have a firearm on his person.

    4. I do not consider it an undue hardship to prove that I am eligible, under Federal law to possess a firearm and that I have at least been exposed to some firearms training. It is no more hardship than being required to own a driver's license, a license to dispense drugs, or a contractor's license; and we rarely whine about those types of licensing.

    I know, in my heart, that I am going to be challenged by someone over the constitutional right to bear arms, but I will remind them, that as of this date, the legal rulings do not accept that 2a is unlimited in it's scope and meaning.

    You can argue that point 'till the cows come home, and it doesn't change a damn thing. The laws of the land allow limitation on firearms ownership, and no amount of "armchair justicing" changes that.

    We are always going to have firearm laws, if we wish to protect our rights to own and carry guns, we best support measures that are acceptable to the society as a whole and continue to support our rights as law abiding citizens to own guns. To push for everything means we stand a chance to lose everything.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  7. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

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    There I fixed it for ya Axxe.
     
  8. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mississippi should be added. Incidentally, in spite of dire predictions by some that passing such legislation would result in shootouts on the town square and multiple confrontations between open carry hoodlums and LE, no such incidents have been reported as of this date.

    http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=261

    Summary
    Mississippi is an open carry state and the state constitution appears to guarantee this right. Further, localities are generally preempted under state law from enacting local gun control ordnances that might restrict open carry. Prior to 2013 however, Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & §
    45-9-101 operate together to ban carriage of a handgun “concealed in whole or in part” unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver. As the Mississippi courts have previously said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver was apparently required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi for many years. However in 2013 the Mississippi legislature passed a bill clarifying that no license was required to open carry a handgun in a holster.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  9. AmPaTerry

    AmPaTerry Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    Bill Jordan lamented the passing of the day when virtually everyone OC'd. He said people acted more civilized, and it was a much politer society back then.

    I agree.
    The BG's are armed NOW.
    Letting everyone else be armed as well can only have a good effect.

    I do have to disagree about the firearms course only covering the legal aspects of CCW, though -
    The course in TN covered that, but also covered safety, familiarity with the weapon, and accuracy on the range -
     
  10. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    MI also allows OC... you do need a permit to purchase or transfer a pistol, but that is not reqd for a rifle.

    Go way back into the late 1800's, when the courts considered conceal carry something that only would be done with nefarious intent, and OC was considered legal and acceptable.
     
  11. blackxpress

    blackxpress Member

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    Ohio also allows open carry without a permit.
     
  12. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I expect there would be FAR fewer arguments and fights.

    Open carry is legal in Alabama now. So far so good. I have seen few carrying, but it will probably increase as people grow accustomed to it.
     
  13. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are a lot of open carry states now.
    ImageUploadedByFirearms Talk1407594486.723846.jpg
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    thanks guys for adding those in. the source i used may need updating.
     
  15. rifleman1

    rifleman1 New Member

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    i do think that there should be permits but they should be a little easier to get,it is a process to get them now it should be streamlined a little in my opinion but being i live in california i really can not complain because over all it is considered easy in the county i live in.
    i do not feel that crime would increase if more people had a ccw i feel the old saying rings true "an armed society is a polite society"
     
  16. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    An armed society must be a polite society.
     
  17. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    It is legal but effectively it is not when they make it illegal to even enter a vehicle while OC-ing without a cpl.
     
  18. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    Michigan just urks me, I mean, all my handguns are registered to the state and legally owned, I have a hunter's safety certificate, driver's license and the list goes on and on, but because I may or may not have anxiety they won't consider giving me a cpl without a fight, all the time being that OC is legal for me. Just makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  19. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is an interesting graphic. Look at the color blocks and think about what the different groups have in common.
     
  20. rifleman1

    rifleman1 New Member

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    ''manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life''