Do you think copper bullets should completely replace lead bullets?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by MP1000, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. MP1000

    MP1000 New Member

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    I think it would be a good idea. Copper is safe to touch, so people like me won't have to worry about it getting in my system. It keeps it's form better than lead bullets and doesn't scatter into all these little pieces, which I think would be better knockdown bullet than lead. And it's a safe alternative for animals to eat. I can't think of any downside to copper bullets. What do you think?
     
  2. divinginn

    divinginn New Member

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    Low mass weight,less penetration,no mushrooming,all I can think of right now. and loss of energy down range.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    It is also ILLEGAL to make pure copper handgun bullets- they go thru body armor. From 18 USC 922:

    "(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
    (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
    (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. "

    Being harder than lead, they do not accept rifling the same.

    And a good part of the lead exposure you can get shooting is not from the bullet, but the primer. Most primers are based on lead azide.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  4. MP1000

    MP1000 New Member

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    So I guess a copper .50 S&W bullet fired from a Smith & Wesson Magnum would be pretty illegal then. Why does Barnes Ammunition sell them then?
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    You would have to ask that question of the BATFE Firearms Technical Branch in West Virginia. Info I posted is cut & paste from the Federal Crimnal Code that regulates firearms and ammunition.
     
  6. ranger_sxt

    ranger_sxt New Member

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    No.

    Copper is much more expensive than lead.

    Lead is also a better bullet for many applications, including handgun hunting and shooting at steel...
     
  7. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The density of lead is desireable to have sufficient mass to accurately reach the target and have enough energy left to humanely kill the target or knock down the target (steel, IHMSA). Even lead is insufficient for certain tasks. Thuis is why the military is using depleted Uranium in many cannon rounds because it is even more dense than lead and carries more kinetic energy to the target.

    And, yes. The Barnes copper handgun bullets are "technically" against the federal law. They likely have some sort of a waiver from the BATFE.
     
  8. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Maybe Barnes is stepping around the 100% copper law by loading with a 99.95% pure copper bullet. Sounds stupid I know, but it could be why....just a thought.
     
  9. 1hole

    1hole New Member

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    "And it's a safe alternative for animals to eat. I can't think of any downside to copper bullets. What do you think? "

    Many downsides to copper bullets, most are listed above. AND, perhaps more to the point, there are virtually NO downsides to lead bullets. Kids have eaten bird shot, most of us who eat game birds and animals have ingeted pure lead pellets and chunks, quite a few people are carrying around bullets and fragemnts that are too risky to remove. All with no harm, because solid lead is harmless to animals (ecept in the flying bullet form)!

    It's true that BIRDS are harmed by ingesting lead bits but that's only because their digestive system, a craw in which bits of gravel grind up the food - and lead - into fine particles that CAN be absorbed, but that hazard ONLY applies to them. So, all of the excited heavy breathing over "lead" being harmful to mammals is from half-baked "Chicken Littles" running in circles shouting "the sky is falling" with no idea of what they are talking about. It's the height of "junk science", even more so than man-made Global Warming.

    Handle all the lead bullets you want, cast all the lead bullets you want. Just don't breathe the molten lead fumes very much and don't lick your hands clean of the gray dust and you will be fine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    OMG lead bullets account of ZERO deaths of animals EATING them. Last time I looked no animals like to eat bullets. That is unless your shooting them in the face.

    1. all copper has to be longer per weight causing different twist rates to be used. Twist rate does not go on weight but on length.

    2. Barns sells 500 smith 50 cal bullets in copper because you don't carry a 500 smith for CCW (Are you stupid or just like acting that way?) these bullets are made for hunting.

    3. The California Ban is baised on no science no fact they just did it as a feel good measure.

    4. If you want a non toxic metal that is comperable to lead then use something like the no toxic shotgun shells use Tungsten, Iron, Nickel.

    5. Prove to me that one single poor ugly *** condor was harmed by a coyote or squirrel shot with a lead bullet.

    Lead is more dangerous than other metals. But if you take precautions and wash your hands before eating or anytime you have handled lead you should be ok. Just don't go pullin your wanker after reloading or while reloading and you will be OK......
     
  11. 1hole

    1hole New Member

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    cpt, we agree. In essence anyway. But, fact is, a FEW condors have been found dead from lead poisioning, presumably from eating carrion with bits of lead in it. And, it is well documented that some ducks have also died from ingesting lead pellets in the mud of shallows where they we feeding. So, it's "real" enough but the real incidence rate is so low as to make the whole thing laughable if the greenie Chicken Little wackos didn't have so much political impact. Proof that a little knowledge is a danerous thing if it's not tempered with a bit of common sense.

    Another fact is, critters die. From a lot of things. Those birds, of what ever type, who die due to lead could just as well have any of a few dozen other maladies that do 'em in and be just as dead. THE reason the greenies target lead pellets is to target US, the sportsmen who have actually paid the price to restore the game populations the weines now - suddenly, and at no cost to themselves of course - wish to "protect" from mean ol' hunters. All while the vast majority of them enjoy unhealty portions of beef, pork, foul, fish several times a week! Meaining, it ain't killing animals they care about, it's us killing the little cartoon animals they learned to love on Saturday mornings!
     
  12. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I bet if you looked at the range of the birds that dies of lead posining you would find a large military base in that range. Heck Fort Irwin, and china lake are right next to each other and there is a LOT of LEAD spewed in to the hill side along with plenty of other toxic chemicals by the way.

    Sorry I don't for one minute believe that the condors are dropping like flies enough to warrant banning all lead based ammo.

    Then again if your bleeding heart wants to save a bird that really doesn't do much but be fugly then go for it.

    This is the same crap that killed logging in my home town. OH all the stupid city foke want to save the poor owl that for some reason only lives in old growth forest. Yeah whatever they were thriving better in new growth forest than old growth.

    Someone needs to slap the piss right out of these tree huggin bunny lovers.

    Here is what we should really do. All hunters stop hunting for 2 years stop hunting everything and see what happens. When all the bunny lovers start hitting deer every day they will soon call for more deer hunting.
     
  13. 1hole

    1hole New Member

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    "Yeah whatever (the owls) were thriving better in new growth forest than old growth."

    Uh huh. And I read the owls are doing great nesting in old bill boards, other signs, etc., too.

    Lord, save us all from brainless loony greenies with an agenda!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  14. divinginn

    divinginn New Member

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    Does anyone else realize how toxic copper is? It is what they used to pressure treat wood with before it was outlawed,also painted on boat bottoms to control bottom growth. I work with copper everyday,I get very nasty infections where I get scratched with copper wire,nasty stuff you just dont hear much about it.
     
  15. fprefect

    fprefect New Member

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  16. SweetSynaa

    SweetSynaa New Member

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    It's not the copper giving you an infection. It's the releasing agent or lubricant they use when extruding the wires, or possibly a another metal included in the copper alloy. High content copper is actually anti-microbial (which is why they used it to prevent growth on normally porous surfaces). The most common cause of copper poisoning is when someone ingests copper mixed with an acid like vinegar, even then, you have to ingest massive amounts on a regular basis to start seeing noticeable symptoms of copper toxicity.
     
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    No. "Shall not be infringed."
     
  18. Lindenwood

    Lindenwood New Member

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    I agree with the general notion that there isn't a big enough issue to worry about, and that copper is a much less effective bullet choice. Especially on rounds which are limited by COAL due to grip size (any auto pistol round), the longer bullet would eat into powder capacity.
     
  19. Creeker

    Creeker New Member

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    What is this copper bullet thing? I thought real boolits were made from lead/lead alloy?