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Wow! I hate the dichotomy of the options: death or possible heavy fines, court costs, & years in prison. If I am "backed against a wall" with a perpetrator, so to speak, that is a tough decision to face. It really makes me wonder how useful carrying a firearm would be.

Thanks for all of the feedback.
There are even some states that enshrine their hesitancy in the penal code, explicitly stating that deadly force is only going to be authorized if there's no other choice and all but certain death/crippling is the thing being avoided.

Yeah, it's stark in many of the U.S. states, how they effectively back the citizens into a legal corner, all but threatening them with "the rack" and penury if they dare lift a finger in their own defense.

But in most states it's nowhere near that bad. Generally speaking, NO state in the U.S. legally demands and requires a person to simply" suck it up" when facing crippling injury or death. Just ensure you're well aware of your own state's use-of-force statutes. And ensure you do everything you can, time allowing, to show any onlookers that you're being "backed against a wall" and "have no other choice" than to employ force (even deadly force) to halt the violent felony being perpetrated.

For myself, thankfully I live in a state that hasn't gone completely bat dung crazy on the matter. It's about as good as it gets, really. Still, even here, one needs to "get it right" in an ugly situation. And ensuring onlookers see a violent felon being halted always helps the subsequent investigation seeing it the proper way.

It is a challenging decision, choosing to refuse to be victimized and violated. Can be expensive no matter how you slice it. But it'll be cheaper than dying or allowing your family members to die because of some perp's bad choices.

I'd suggest going through a handful of highly-regarded defensive training courses, including with sidearms, knives. Think through the scenarios you're likely to encounter. Determine to what level you'll actually be capable of performing, in those situations. Prepare your tools and settings as well as you can, along with your skills. And be willing. That, in addition to knowing your own state's statutes "cold" should be sufficient to get you through most things.
 

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Wow! I hate the dichotomy of the options: death or possible heavy fines, court costs, & years in prison. If I am "backed against a wall" with a perpetrator, so to speak, that is a tough decision to face. It really makes me wonder how useful carrying a firearm would be.

Thanks for all of the feedback.
Carrying a SD gun is a huge responsibility. That is an under-statement of the highest order. I just simplify it. If someone gives me indicators that he/she is going to kill or physically hurt me, I'm not willing for that to happen to me and/or my family or even someone else. You can play mental gymnastics and play act that the rest of your life or just understand that you don't know specifically what will make you do that if it ever happens. Chances are it won't where I live. Fortunately, I live in and am surrounded by states that support my thinking about SD. It's a dark subject that has to be simplified, at least for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Everything (property, vehicles, retirement, etc. had to be in joint ownership to avoid the possibility of a bad decision in court.
Can you elaborate on this joint ownership? Is this to protect a prosecutor from taking more than 50% of the assets? My wife and I share our assets and live a "combined" life. But as far as the actual name of ownership on our assets, she has her stuff, I have mine. In other words, my car is titled in my name, her car is in her name. My retirement accounts are in my name, her accounts are in her name. The home is in both of our names. The checking and savings accounts are in both of our names.
 

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Wow! I hate the dichotomy of the options: death or possible heavy fines, court costs, & years in prison. If I am "backed against a wall" with a perpetrator, so to speak, that is a tough decision to face. It really makes me wonder how useful carrying a firearm would be.

Thanks for all of the feedback.
Flat honesty on it, your odds of being hit by lightning might be higher, than needing that handgun. I've carried about 20 years, and have never needed to draw mine once, much less fire it.

In that same time, I've had to use a home owner's policy once, and a vehicle policy twice.

Like with insurance, it will always be better to have it, and never need it, than to be standing there, without a handgun, in that one in ten million time, when you do need it.
 

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Tom Gresham of Gun Talk Media has stated that self defense shooting is a $100,000 bill.

There was a couple on a different forum that shared their experience when the wife shot and killed home invaders. While they didn't provide a direct accounting of their financial experience of this, I was adding numbers in my head, and they were easily at 100k.

Some key takeaways I had
Have more than one firearm. Police confiscated their only firearm during their investigation
Lawyers cost money, and no matter how righteous the shoot, you need a lawyer
Have the ability, financial or otherwise to stay somewhere else. Not only is your house a crime scene, it is also a hazardous waste scene.
You and the family are going to need counseling.
Then the civil lawsuits start from the victim families
Victim families will harass your family in multiple ways
IRC, he lost his job
They had to sell their house at a significant loss
They eventually divorced.

Absolutely pay for carry insurance. We have chosen Firearms Legal Protection. USCCA is also a good choice.

Both have attorneys answering the phone, and have attorneys on standby. Friend of mine is an attorney that specializes in firearm laws. He received a call at 2:30am, and he immediately called the city in question and advised the police dept, that he represented the person they took into custody, and they were not to question him until he was present.
 

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Flat honesty on it, your odds of being hit by lightning might be higher, than needing that handgun. I've carried about 20 years, and have never needed to draw mine once, much less fire it.

In that same time, I've had to use a home owner's policy once, and a vehicle policy twice.

Like with insurance, it will always be better to have it, and never need it, than to be standing there, without a handgun, in that one in ten million time, when you do need it.
As you just said, home and auto more likely.. Firearm indecent, less likely.. But a firearm could have more repercussions and need way more legal representation.. I carry insurance..
 

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Wow! I hate the dichotomy of the options: death or possible heavy fines, court costs, & years in prison. If I am "backed against a wall" with a perpetrator, so to speak, that is a tough decision to face. It really makes me wonder how useful carrying a firearm would be.

Thanks for all of the feedback.
How many times in your life up to now have you had the need to shoot somebody? Think about it.

When new people buy their first gun and get a concealed carry permit all of a sudden they start with the mind games about getting into gunfights, shooting home invaders and Circle K stick-up men...things that are as unlikely to happen to you now as they were before you bought the gun.

USCCA insurance is fine; lots of CCW classes offer it. But it's not a substitute for good sense, gun safety, familiarity with the law and proficiency.

Enjoy your gun. Guns are fun. Shooting is fun. Get to the range. Pop off some rounds. Learn your gun. Take it apart, put it together, handle it a lot, safely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
How many times in your life up to now have you had the need to shoot somebody? Think about it.
I see what you're saying and appreciate the feedback. Yes, some of this is probably unnecessary mental gymnastics that I thrust myself into. However, my wife did have a few near-misses in our years together. Only eternity will ever know what could have happened. But in each case, the perp was either intercepted or something else diverted the situation. She does get advanced on frequently for her looks (i.e., men casually and innocently flirting with her, which doesn't really bother her or I). To date, none of those have been aggressive. But it is apparent to me that a situation may be slightly more likely with her. However, as someone else said, it is probably true that we are more likely to be struck by lightning first.

This is all very good feedback folks!
 

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I am not a cop. I don't try to be one. The gun is my last option not my first. That said I still came very close to using one on more than one occasion. All it takes is a left wing anti gun prosecutor to put you in a major bind. I have USCCA membership.
I, too, have it as a final option in the tool chest, while I'm living my life. I won't be victimized, while I'm still breathing. There aren't many ways to ensure that, if some perp decides I'm to be taken down (or out). Have been in a two-on-one attempted mugging situation, with a pair of robbers rapidly approaching, a situation where I drew my sidearm ... at which point they disappeared into the night. Had I not been armed, very possibly I would not be here today.

Indeed, all it takes is an "enterprising" DA and prosecutor to stretch the law until it's all but unrecognizable. And generally speaking a jury will fall for it, if the story is "sweet" enough.

But then, all it takes is one such scenario unfolding where we're unprepared or incapable of doing a thing about it. That'll ruin the day quite easily, such failure.
 

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I, too, have it as a final option in the tool chest, while I'm living my life. I won't be victimized, while I'm still breathing. There aren't many ways to ensure that, if some perp decides I'm to be taken down (or out). Have been in a two-on-one attempted mugging situation, with a pair of robbers rapidly approaching, a situation where I drew my sidearm ... at which point they disappeared into the night. Had I not been armed, very possibly I would not be here today.

Indeed, all it takes is an "enterprising" DA and prosecutor to stretch the law until it's all but unrecognizable. And generally speaking a jury will fall for it, if the story is "sweet" enough.

But then, all it takes is one such scenario unfolding where we're unprepared or incapable of doing a thing about it. That'll ruin the day quite easily, such failure.
One area that is not so know to be a problem is local DA's. They carry tremendous power. Mine, in a low profile city where I live was caught "doing" a friend of mine's wife by a private detective. Pictures, voice recordings....caught. He's still the DA and got away with living like this and still holding public office and swearing to the Constitution. And then there is Kim Fox and others....
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
One area that is not so know to be a problem is local DA's. They carry tremendous power. Mine, in a low profile city where I live was caught "doing" a friend of mine's wife by a private detective. Pictures, voice recordings....caught. He's still the DA and got away with living like this and still holding public office and swearing to the Constitution. And then there is Kim Fox and others....
:eek::eek::eek:
 

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How many times in your life up to now have you had the need to shoot somebody? Think about it.
I've come close, had 2 that were solidly justified, in 25 years, and only one when I was carrying. Would have given my right arm to have been armed in the first one, as that ended u[p involving an inprovised weapon, against a guy with a blade. After that, I started carrying, and got my USCCA policy.

Also replaced my leather riding jacket, as that was all that kept the cut to my left forearm shallow, and the snap kept the artery in my wrist intact.

Second one, drawing was enough, and the guy was taken down by the C Store clerk.

Wife has had one in 20 years, grandfather had 2 in 64 years, father, none in 35.

The odds of it happening are slim, but it can happen, and what PD posted about the legal bills, is spot on, and frankly, at the low end of the price scale. I would bet Zimmerman paid more, as have others.

For us to have $100k to cover legal fees, it would take selling the bikes, trucks, car. my share of the business, all the guns, and some internal organs, on the black market. Same with my tools, and a few first edition books in my collection, and it would still be a maybe. Have one friend who went through it in NY, and it cost him everything he and his wife worked for for 40 years, after shooting a paor of armed home invaders.

Compared to that, carrying a large blanket policy, and an SD specific policy is cheap.
 

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Flat honesty on it, your odds of being hit by lightning might be higher, than needing that handgun. I've carried about 20 years, and have never needed to draw mine once, much less fire it.
Yes, generally speaking, the overall likelihood is low.

In 40yrs I've been attacked violently twice two-on-one (out of the blue mugging/battery attempt), had an attempted late-night mugging by two perps in the darkened parking lot of the grocery store, and been shot at on the highway once. Relatively rare, but still.

Drew the sidearm in the grocery lot, and the perps thought better of the utility of ventilation. Left each of the two-on-one perps who thought mugging was a proper vocation broken and bleeding. And could do nothing about the nighttime shot at me on the highway.

Sometimes, "life" just happens. The choice for us is little more than this: be prepared and capable ... or, not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Drew the sidearm in the grocery lot, and the perps thought better of the utility of ventilation. Left each of the two-on-one perps who thought mugging was a proper vocation broken and bleeding.
It sounds like you shot each of them, correct? If so, what were the repercussions upon you? Cops show up? Any court hearings or prosecution? I'm curious how it all played out.
 

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BTW:

If you find yourself sitting before a jury of your peers charged with homicide, you have stumbled on a few hurdles:

The police didn't believe your story and/or the prosecutor didn't believe your story and/ or the grand jury didn't believe your story and/or the judge who bound you over for trial thought there was a possibility you murdered someone.

There's a very good chance the jury won't believe your story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
BTW:

If you find yourself sitting before a jury of your peers charged with homicide, you have stumbled on a few hurdles:

The police didn't believe your story and/or the prosecutor didn't believe your story and/ or the grand jury didn't believe your story and/or the judge who bound you over for trial thought there was a possibility you murdered someone.

There's a very good chance the jury won't believe your story.
Perhaps. Or it could be a hotshot left-wing prosecutor who wants to take me to the cleaners, despite it truly being self-defense.
 

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It sounds like you shot each of them, correct? If so, what were the repercussions upon you? Cops show up? Any court hearings or prosecution? I'm curious how it all played out.
No.

Had a couple of two-person assaults upon me. Fisticuffs, I wasn't armed, and to the best of my knowledge they were only armed with their hands, feet and criminal aggression. Left them all downed, broken and bloody.

Had one instance of a two-person mugging attempt, late night in a grocery parking lot. Drew on them, at which point those two disappeared into the distance. Didn't have to fire upon them, thankfully.
 

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Didn't have to fire upon them, thankfully.
Amen to that.

I'm not the most religious person out there, but every morning, when I wake up, I pray that today is not the day, and that I will come home at the end of the day, not having to have used my weapon. Every night when I get home, and go to bed, with that being the case, I pray in Thanks, that it was not the day.

I think that you would find that with most who carry.

An observation from growing up USMC. Those who are best prepared to fight, are the ones that pray the most for peace. Likely because they know the price, the true price, of conflict.

I literally carry today, because I don't ever want to have to face down a guy with a knife, with a coffee pot, ever again. Once was more than enough, and if the clerk that night had not been like family, odds are I would have stepped out the rear door, and called LE, rather than confront him.

Went out the next day, to the LGS, and bought a good IWB holster for my 1911, lock boxes fir the truck, car, and bike hard bags, and kept it locked up at work, and back on me when I left. Risked my job, and my freedom doing so, as I worked for the SUNY system in NY, which barred possession on campus. State law.

Simply put, it's better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6. And a handgun from a distance will always be a safer option than a pot fo fresh decaff, at close range.

And 20 years later, I still pray that I never need that weapon, much less that insurance, but I still carry because I don't live in a safe area of the city. In the words of an Uber driver, who drove me home from the grocery store, while we were swapping the engine on my truck this winter "Damn, you live in the Hood Too."

He lives one block east, and one block south of us, half a block from the corner where most of the weekend shootings were going down, until the city closed a local after hours club. We just live on a quieter block.
 
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