DIY AR-15 Question.

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by LowercaseJay, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. LowercaseJay

    LowercaseJay New Member

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    Not sure if this is the correct spot for my question but it seemed like it was a reasonable one. I've been saving up for a nice Hurco 3-axis cnc mill, and I want to build my own AR-15. All across the world wide web everbody and their mother is interested in AR lowers, I'm interested in a complete build minus the barrel. I have accurate blueprints, firearm specific manuals, machining manuals, gunsmithing manuals,the ability to learn incredibly fast (kinesthetically), and a hunch, but I'd like a more experienced input.

    Can I build the entire AR-15 (minus the barrel) using a cnc mill? or would i have to invest in a 3D printer as well?
     
  2. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    3d printer is only for polymer parts. It could come in handy for custom accessories (mags, fore grip) but shouldn't be necessary.
    Unless you have have the ability to manufacture springs you will need to purchase some parts. Some parts may also be cheaper to purchase than manufacture.
    You do realize you can never sell the gun. Unless you have an ffl for manufacturing.
     

  3. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    with a good milling machine, diagrams and blueprints, and some skill using a milling machine, i don't see why not. a lot will depend on your skills though.

    in regards to MM13's comment, is this fpr personal use or are you looking towards making and selling them? because if for personal use, it's perfectly legal to build a firearm from scratch as per BATF guidelines, for personal use. making them for selling will require an FFL like MM13 suggested.
     
  4. LowercaseJay

    LowercaseJay New Member

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    yes, I am aware that I cannot sell the gun and I intend on getting a type 07 FFL. I have a business model that passed the local zoning requirements and I'm in the midst of do my market research for my business plan to ease my investor's concerns. However, I was hoping to make a few guns of several types for personal use before I actually sent my application to the BATF because I fear that if I'm paying the annual FFL fees on top of the overhead and other manufacturing costs during my trial and error phase, I'll only run my investor's money and my business straight into the dirt.

    Thank you for putting that into perspective for me, that helps out a lot.
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row to me!:D

    work on your machining skills. find sources for material for making your product. build a website to promote your product. have good customer service. this is very important. many of us base our experiances with a product on how good the customer service is. good product, but crappy CS, and many of us will go somewhere else to buy. decent product and very good CS, and we will beat your door down trying to buy your products!

    BTW, welcome to the forum and stop over in the Introductions section and say hello to everyone! glad to have you aboard.:D
     
  6. LowercaseJay

    LowercaseJay New Member

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    I'll do that, and thanks again.
     
  7. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    you're welcome! again welcome to the forum!:D
     
  8. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I think you will need to buy barrel blanks , unless you can forge your own steel and have lots of experience doing this I dont recommend it . The tooling is going to be very costly and you would need to do ALOT of them to recoup your money . Cool project though !!!!! I have had a lathe and mill on the back burner for a long long time , one of these days I will buy it . Maybe when I retire and have more time on my hands :)
     
  9. BillDeShivs

    BillDeShivs Member

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    It is perfectly legal to sell a gun you made. It is illegal to manufacture guns for sale. There is a big difference.
    You can do what you are asking with a CNC mill, but the fact that you are asking tells me you need machining experience.
    You won't be able to make all the parts, but you can make the major ones.
     
  10. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Serial number????
     
  11. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    I could see you being able to build lowers, uppers, and some of the less complicated parts but do you really plan on making BCG, buffer tubes, gas tubes, etc.....?
     
  12. BillDeShivs

    BillDeShivs Member

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    There is no federal requirement for a serial number on a home made gun that is not an NFA weapon.
     
  13. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Do I need a Federal firearms license to make a firearm for my own personal use,
    provided it is not being made for resale?


    Firearms may be lawfully made by persons who do not hold a manufacturer’s license under the
    GCA provided they are not for sale or distribution and the maker is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
    However, a person is prohibited from
    assembling a non
    -
    sporting semi automatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts
    , as set forth in regulations in 27 CFR 478.39.
    In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and
    advance
    approval by ATF.
    An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless
    documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for
    the official use of
    a - 8 - Federal , State or local government agency
    ( 18 U.S.C. § 922(o) , (r) ; 26 U.S.C. § 5822 ; 27 CFR §§ 478.39, 479.62 , and 479.105).
    Additionally, although markings are not required on firearms manufactured for personal use (excluding NFA firearms) , owners are recommended to
    conspicuously place or engrave a serial number and/ or other marks of identification to aid in investigation or recovery by State or local
    law enforcement officials in the event of a theft or loss of the privately owned firearm.
     
  14. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Hmmm, I guess arguing with the gunsmith didn't work out so well for you Bill.
     
  15. Crazycastor

    Crazycastor New Member

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    Are you a machinest now? Have you ever used a lathe or milling maching? If you haven't I would reconsider it. You will have more money invested in bits and tools then 5 ar15s would cost. Not only will you have to know code for the machine, you will have to learn the speeds for your cutting bits, learn how to read mikes, the strengths of the different metals etc etc etc I am no machinist but I do have a big mill and lathe and I have made some cool parts for guns, cars and motorcycles. It is time consuming. Set up and programming will take up most of your time. But I will say this. If you really want this, do it. If the ar doesnt work out, you can still make things and learn. Just remeber this too. Bits will break and when they do they usually take your project with them.
     
  16. Crazycastor

    Crazycastor New Member

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    Yes its legal to make your own gun. Just don't make a machine gun or a grenade launcher. You can make all your parts and buy springs and screws. You can even buy a barrel for it. But you have to stick with what guns are legal to have in your state. If your state bans ar15, then the ar15 you just made falls into that catagorie. Keep track of what restricted in your state and check out if they have a tax in order to have certain rifles. Even if it doesn't have to be register it still has to meet state requirements to take it out shooting.
     
  17. LowercaseJay

    LowercaseJay New Member

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    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I'm a machinist by any means. I've had many jobs and hobbies that have made me familiar to a plethora of tools and machines and doing programming and 3D modeling for video games, I'm absolutely positive that I can wrap my head around CAD and g-code. I'm a CNC virgin, I agree, but nobody is born a professional and I don't expect this forum to be a replacement for school. I only want guidance so that I can succeed in school and in business, seeing as though neither one is really easy for a beginner.

    With that said, I see the different points being brought up about the bolt carrier group, and gas tubes, and what not... the short answer.. no, I didn't really plan on manufacturing these parts. I did want to know though, if it came down to it, could it be done? I'm happy with the responses and again, I'm sorry for the confusion. But if you guys can help me with one more thing please:

    Being new to cnc milling, I understand that a part is drawn in the CAD software then converted to g-code with CAM software and it's that g-code that instructs the mill. I also know there is tons of CAD/CAM software to choose from and like everything else in the world, you get what you pay for and sometimes less. A list that was given to me includes:

    1. G-wizard for feeds and speeds
    2. Geomagic Design for model creation
    3. V-Carve Pro
    4. Deskproto

    This seems like more than what's needed so I'm hoping somebody here can set me straight. It would be nice to have as little software as possible for simplicity's sake, so if there's a one stop software available on the market that would be great. If not, can somebody please recommend reliable, professional grade software for CNC milling?

    I really do appreciate the responses.
     
  18. BillDeShivs

    BillDeShivs Member

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    Read my reply again. That is exactly what I said.
    Having trouble with reading comprehension?
    You can not make a gun for sale, but you can sell a gun you made. Just don't do too much of it.
    serial numbers are not required.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  19. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    You cannot sell a manufactured firearm without a serial number. You need to check your reading comprehension. A serial number is not required for a firearm manufactured for personal use. Said firearm cannot change hands. Building an ar from purchased parts with serial numbers and later selling it is not the same as manufacturing a firearm with no serial number.
     
  20. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Bill, unless you have a manufacturing ffl you cannot sell a home made rifle . Only for personal usage .