Disarming America - Could it Happen?

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Dillinger, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    So, I was having a recent exchange with a fellow forum member about what happened in Australia, with the government having everyone turn in their weapons and the question was asked if I was worried about having "weapons on the books". The thought was, I am sure, that since the weapons were registered, Joe Policeman could come to my residence and ask for a list of weapons that I have in my name.

    My thought is no, I am not worried about it, at this time. Obviously legislation would need to be in place for this change to take effect. And I know some sm@rt@ss out there is going to site Katrina and yeah, it happened, but there was also a state of Martial Law, and the people that were subjected to that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Evacuation orders were given and so on. So, Katrina aside - I concede that point, it's not really the point behind this discussion.

    So, given these criteria as a base:

    1) Since you can sell firearms, in most states, between private individuals without an FFL,
    2) when you factor in the millions of firearms that have been handed down from generation to generation that no one has records of,
    3) plus the hundreds of thousands of home engineers, tinkerers, closet gunsmiths,
    4) not to mention all the industry currently producing parts, accessories, firearms, ammo, and just about every toy under the sun for us gun owners,
    5) plus the power behind groups like the NRA,
    6) And all the old power brokers behind the scenes who have all the green and like their firearms..

    Do you personally believe that it would be possible to completely disarm our country like they did in Australia?

    I know that anything is possible if you want to spend enough time and energy on it, so please don't respond with "Yes, it's possible" and call it a day. I would truly like to know how my fellow countrymen feel about the chances of any government, foreign or domestic, actually being able to disarm the US.

    Thanks in advance,

    JD
     
  2. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    As gun control laws prove, you can't completely disarm people through legislation. But they could bring in a sizable percentage of firearms through concerted efforts on multiple fronts:
    • Legislation that would require all inherited firearms be turned in is one mechanism to collect a bunch.
    • Requiring a permit to purchase ammo is another.
    • The continued "pussification" of the country and incessant harping on "guns are bad" would reduce new sales.
    • Banning new sales of firearms and/or ammo is an option.
    But without a major catastrophe where martial law is declared throughout the country, they wouldn't go door-to-door collecting firearms.

    Registering firearms serve no purpose other than to provide a map the government if it chooses to try to confiscate firearms some time in the future.

    The fly in the gun-confiscation plan is people like us who enjoy shooting, teach our kids to use firearms and teach them the importance of 2A.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, for MOST of us, there is no "registration" of guns- dealers that sell modern arms must maintain a record, but it is at the dealer. Want to try to find the record for a Browning BAR sold 35 yrs ago? Good luck! Then there are inherited guns, guns bought from a neighbor, bought at an estate auction, etc. Could the US be disarmed? No. Was Australia disarmed? No. Check the number of robberies and assaults committed with firearms there. Guns are still out there. They would still be here- but not in the hands of the good guys. You might also search Google for paltik or cigarette gun- homemade firearms made during WWII to fight the Japanese. Not real safe, not real accurate, not real reliable- but it only had to work once- then you had this nice Arisaka.:D I have made, for the US Army, for demonstration purposes, 12 guage shotguns using water pipe, and common hand tools. Yeah, demo fired with a L O N G string- but they worked. Can they outlaw water pipe? No- but the recent crap from CA prohibiting shipment of a firearm FROM a FFL dealer TO a FFL dealer in CA without an approval letter- well, that's how it works. Our rights will not be swallowed whole by a shark- they will be nibbled to death by ducks.
     
  4. ScottG

    ScottG New Member

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    More like rats I'd think.

    We could only be disarmed if we want to be. Our population is larger than Australia and I think it would be a darn sight harder to get the contrarians among us to just give up our weapons. Some would do it because if it's a law, well it's a law and they obey laws. Others would give them up out of fear of prosecution. It would take a very resolute person to actually publicly refuse to do it. Most who would keep something back would do it quietly.

    Considering gun ownership is a constitutional right, I'd hope there would be many people would vocally reject calls for confiscation. However, to resist a demand to turn their guns in would be a major line that would take a lot of thought before crossing it.
     
  5. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Could total disarmament happen ? NO

    Could disarmament happen to enough otherwise law abiding citizens that to legally use guns for things that we now take for granted ? YES

    As we have seen even in places like South Africa and the Middle East where people have no Constitutional Freedoms as we do there are machine guns every where . Little kids as young as 8 run around with full auto AK47's but , they are also under order from the local Warlord and often never live to see their 18th birthday much less their 40th . They commit ethnic genocide against the law abiding citizens while the world watches on CNN having cocktails after work .

    We have places like LA and Chicago that especially after dark it may as well be in a third world country , the animals have complete rule . Police protection is nothing more than joke as even the police must run around in packs with machine guns just to stay alive .

    The Nation keeps changing and not for the better , just as whores and child Molesters wouldn't have lasted long in a Colonial town 200 years ago and today we yawn at their existence so will we in the future in many places live as those in third world Nations having to run from doorway to doorway to avoid a hail of bullets from feudal factions fighting .

    Mexico's drug and violence culture is already spilling over from the border towns and being acted out in cities where the local authorities refuse to deport the criminal scum , instead they welcoming them with open arms for cheap labor not understanding they are also cheapening the value of life as well as destroying our way of life .

    All the while the police will be disarming those who are truly law abiding and jailing them for daring to attempt to protect themselves and their families .

    When it all gets going in full swing the police will let members of gangs or whatever you wish to call them go free because they will either be paid off or know that to anger the leader they would be in effect issuing their own death warrant . The otherwise law abiding citizen however will see a lifetime in prison for daring to have a gun in his possession .

    All of this thanks to a combination of liberalism , unchecked illegal immigration , and our Nations leaders wishing to create their North American Free trade Nation , starting with NAFTA paving the way for more money into their pockets .
     
  6. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    +1 for BigO01 - This could really happen and I don't think that its that far away. Elect liberals and all bets are off.
     
  7. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Complete & total disarmament in Australia may not have taken place, but what good is it to be in possession of guns declared illegal? You can't legally use them. If someone were to break into your house and you shot him, you would be going to jail...I'm sure we all have guns under the radar, the problem is that many of those guns are old technology, I know mine are. My latest acquisitions represent a lifetime of hard work and savings. Don't fool yourself into believing that all those Form 4473's that you have been filling out for decades only reside with your gun dealer! It's naive IMO to think that the ATF doesn't keep those records. That being said, and with my utter distaste for the way things are going, I will state with certainty that any LEO, Guardsman, or local official attempting to confiscate my guns will be dead before he makes it past the front door, and eventually I will be also, but hundreds of thousands went before me to prevent this type of fascism from occuring here, so I would view my actions as those of the ultimate patriot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2008
  8. CARNUT1100

    CARNUT1100 New Member

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    Ok, I know many pwople who handed in all of their prohibited firearms.
    I also "know" ( but not of course confirmed, and nor could I swear to it) many people who didn't hand in their stuff when registration came in. They did things like coating them with grease, wrapping in cloth, and sealing inside airtight PVC tubes and burying them, or other similar ways of hiding them.
    I have heard rumours of a submachine gun under a front doorstep paving stone, but I have no idea who this is or where it is.

    When the handgun restrictions were tightened, that was not an option, as there WAS a list of who had what. Everything on that list had to be taken to a police station and and officially measured for barrel length and if it was under the minimum it was taken on the spot.
    My father's Security Six was about 0.004" over minimum length......
    When you move house your safe and firearms are checked and inspected and matched against the database.
    If police are called to your house for a disturbance they are warned that the householder is a firearm owner beforehand.

    Yes, this could happen in America.
    It could eb deemed that registration does not affect your 2A right to keep arms, then if they ban assault rifles, or semi autos or any category, they know who has what.
    You could find yourself allowed to keep and bear single shot muzzle loaders or rimfires and nothing else.
    Yes, it could happen.

    On the other hand, they will NEVER rein in all of the firearms out there.
    Look at the UK, where cartridge firing handguns are totally banned.
    there are stacks of them floating around.

    Even here, I can ask a few contacts who have contacts who have other contacts, and I could within a day have a new Glock withteh serial number not on any database or register, and it woudl have high capacity magazines ( legally no more than 10 shot in Aus) and it would be cheaper than buying one through the dealer.
    I would not do this, as I could face $14,000 and 7 years of imprisonment if I was caught, but I could if I wanted.
    It ain't hard.


    Australian shooters believed that it wold never happen to us, until they found it happening in front of their eyes.
    Don't make the same mistake.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2008
  9. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Amen and +1 Carnut
     
  10. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    Our liberal congress re-introduced this again last week "HR6257" http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.6257: The rep that introduced it if from Ill. Same place that OSAMA OBAMA is from. Don't
    think it will make it out of any committee, but they keep trying (Just look at the weapons that this Bill would BAN). You will have to clean your closet out.

    VOTE WISELY !
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    This will shock the hell out of you. From that legislation, here is what htey want to ban.....
    `(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means--

    `(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as--

    `(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);

    `(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;

    `(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);

    `(iv) Colt AR-15;

    `(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;

    `(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;

    `(vii) Steyr AUG;

    `(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and

    `(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

    `(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

    `(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

    `(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

    `(iii) a bayonet mount;

    `(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

    `(v) a grenade launcher;

    `(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

    `(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

    `(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;

    `(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

    `(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

    `(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

    `(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

    `(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

    `(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

    `(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

    `(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.'.

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?! That's an awfully broad brush you are painting with there folks....

    JD
     
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Hey, go big or stay home.

    They can ban whatever they want as far as I'm concerned. I'd prefer they didn't ban anything, since that's un-American. But if they won't listen to the people or there are too few people speaking up...that's life. I'm not changing my behavior, and if someone's pen turns me into a criminal, well, I've been called worse.
     
  13. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    I bet Obama cringed when he saw that , they just couldn't wait till they won the white house before they once again showed law abiding gun owners their true intentions despite he and Clinton running around claiming how they supported the 2A for the last year .

    I really hope someone asks him straight out if he would sign that garbage .

    I love to watch them tap dance while they lie to our faces .
     
  14. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    I have seen video online of the British whining and upset, but still carrying their guns or standing in line with their guns prior to turning them in Voluntarily. I have a hard time believing that will happen in this country.

    Also, as a licensed FFL, I saw the ATF take All my 4473 forms out of my store last year. I would fully believe that each one has been scanned into the atf database, except for it would be against the law (backdoor registration)

    Mayhap all those private sale (unregistered) guns really are worth the extra money!
     
  15. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    It's a little more complicated and you have to appreciate that every single firearm you are talking about was registered to the individual. There are few people who will wish to risk a minmum 5 year custodial sentance for the retained possession of a revolver. In the UK with an estimated population of over 65 million, about 30 million more than the islands can bare it's pretty crowded, if you had an unregistered firearm, where could you shoot it?

    There's very few public ranges left, and if you find one you couldn't shoot it there. It's not like the US where you can find the wide open spaces, if you found somewhere quiet place and let a few rounds off I would guarantee someone would hear it and drop a coin. The public over there are very terrorist aware and would be guaranteed to call the police. Once firearms are registered on a central data base then you will have problems, some people will hold out, it's a big country but you would be suprised most will be compliant, but not withstanding who gets elected in the upcoming hopefully the status quo will remain.......................
     
  16. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    Boris, I understand that the weapons shown were registered, you excluded part of my quote.
    Mayhap over there you folks never heard of the phrase "Going Postal" I believe there would have been plenty of that happening here in the same situation. I have to believe that the Brits are a very different people than the Amercans are.
     
  17. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    No I'm sorry I don't understand it either, maybe there is a misunderstanding with how registration is carried out....I have never heard of the term 'postal'.


    In the UK each firearms holder is authorised and each firearm is registered to him, here in France each individual fiream is registered slightly different means much the same in the long run......I know you would like to think so but you will find they are much the same, and in the very unlikely event the situation happens there it would likely go the same way..... I'm not at all saying that all will be compliant but because of media and public pressure most would comply.

    Anyway it's all just speculation, although there must be a continuing fight to prevent further errosion of gun rights, my opinion is that the status quo is likely hopefully to remain much the same for you all. The countries very big and there are a lot of firearms out there..................
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2008
  18. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills New Member

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    "Going Postal"

    Well Boris,
    "Going Postal" is the last thing a free American can do before the end,
    for example, lets say the Government decided to take all the guns. You won't find me standing in line, whimpering about how the bad old government hurt my feelings. I would prefer to stay at home, when the government workers come for my guns, I will be only too happy to give them both barrels.

    I suppose if you choose to turn in your weapons you can stand and fight another day. As for myself, well I'm just too lazy to wait for later.
     
  19. Boris

    Boris New Member

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    Never heard the term before....interesting if only a short term plan, lets hope that your resolution is never put to the test.....
     
  20. Jables

    Jables New Member

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    postal (as found on www.urbandictionary.com)

    Postal has a number of uses. Normally just used as slang for "gone crazy" or can actually mean the act of going on a shooting spree. The term started after several postal employees went on shooting sprees.

    Actually names after postal workers who lost it and came back to work on a shooting spree, it has evolved over the years.