Different Perspective On Little Bighorn Battle

Discussion in 'History' started by alsaqr, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the early 1900s a gent named Edward S. Curtis realized that some of G. A. Custer's Crow scouts were still living. Curtis set about interviewing those scouts. Crow scouts claimed Custer sat on his horse on Weir Point, watching Reno get his butt kicked, refusing to come to Reno's aid.

    Curtis had a big problem, the scouts version of the Little Bighorn battle would fly in the face of the official US Army version and the version being touted in lectures all over the country by Custer's widow, Libby.


    http://www.bigskyjournal.com/articl...011/130/images-of-the-west-fallen-heroes.html


    Curtis went to US president T. Roosevelt who asked him not to write the scouts eyewitness accounts of the Little Bighorn battle. Curtis obeyed.

    The Curtis notes became available in the 1990s.

    http://nativeamericanencyclopedia.com/goes-ahead/
     
  2. Threetango

    Threetango Audentes Fortuna Iuvat Supporter

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    Witnesses said Reno was drunk and couldn't make a rational decision.
    He also rode out of a copse of woods where his dismounted men were, yelling "save yourselves".
    Both Reno and Benteen his lead commanders had an intense dislike of Custer.
     

  3. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Show me.
     
  4. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    Interesting! It is very possible that these eyewitness notes were truthful. But the old scouts were human too, with their own likes and grudges. Time also plays tricks on your memory. Chances are we will never know for sure what exactly went down there.
     
  5. Threetango

    Threetango Audentes Fortuna Iuvat Supporter

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    It was stated more than once in both books I listed above from cavalrymen who were with him and not just one or two..

    Here's a couple of accounts

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Read the books, both authors did a good amount of research and yes over time memories can change but Reno's being drunk didn't.

    Don't get me started on Benteen's inaction. ;)
     
  6. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I have Ancestors on both sides. Not at the Little Big Horn though.
    I understand the First Americans were fighting for their survival. this was one battle. The 7th Calvary or US Army was fighting to eliminate First Americans or put them into corners of the Country, effectively jails, and on the dole so they could keep them from attacking or fighting back.
    They often cite barbarity of Indians forgetting their own barbarism. The Winners write the history books. to give a little perspective to it. During jackson's time and back before Washington, there was a saying started by the English. "Nits make lice." It was in reference the slaaughter of Native women and children, so they could not produce the next generation of lice. In south America the Europeans were and are still doing the same kind of things. They shoot natives or Indians, as sport at such places as river crossings or anytime they can get away with it, which is most of the time. The government looks the other way, and doesn't care. Dad and family wouldn't talk about Indian Ancestry. Grand Ma was refereed to as Black Dutch. Until 1924 Indians could not own property, so they called themselves Black Dutch, Black Irish and so on. In 1924, I think Alabama finally made it against the law to kill an Indian. White Man could simply walk onto your place and take everything and kill you with impunity. To be referred to as Indian was the same as calling someone a niger.
     
  7. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    Indians could not own property? Many Indians owned slaves.
    This is simply not true.
    This is outright nonsense. I don't care who you are, family tales are one thing, history is another.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  8. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I would like to see proof that Indians were legally allowed to own slaves by the US government. I know that Indians kept slaves of their own accord and by tribal law, but never did the US Government permit Native Americans to own slaves plantation style as in the old south.

    Native Americans were not even considered US citizens until 1924. Before 1924 Native Americans were considered as wards of the state. They couldn't even travel without severe restrictions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_civil_rights
     
  9. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    The Cherokee Nation was the largest but not the only slaveholder among the Indian tribes. They held slaves in the South and took them to the Indian Territory. The tribal constitution made slavery law. Most Cherokees sided with the Confederacy. The Chief became a general. It is a seldom discussed part of history, out of the usual liberal and perhaps self-serving considerations.

    Most Cherokee people did not own slaves, as most whites didn't. Those who did held Negro slaves the same way, plantation style.

    The draconian treatment of Native Americans by the government is well documented. Mixing it up with slavery is intellectually dishonest.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  10. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    Col. Standing Wate of the Cherokee Mounted Rifles was the last Rebels to surrender. Chief John Ross signed the agreement to allow the Nation to support the Southern Confederacy. The Indian tribes fought to keep their Black slaves.
    It was the introduction of Christianity that ended the cannibalism and slavery of the late stone age people. Many small tribes joined the Europeans through out the 3 centuries of strife in America.
    As for Gen. Custer. G.A. Custer was a Democrat in the Northern Republican Army. The Northern press and politicians waged a never ending battle against Custer. It is difficult to tell fiction from fact.
     
  11. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    I first read about this in the novel Rifles For Watie. It turned out to be historically accurate.
     
  12. Threetango

    Threetango Audentes Fortuna Iuvat Supporter

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    Off topic, I'm gone !
     
  13. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I have largely given up digging into family history. A cousin is pursuing it and has volumes we and she have put together over decades. Unfortunately little written history exist from Native America. Mama and Grand Ma are gone as well as all my Uncles and Dad. On Mother's Father's lineage one whole county is related through a Native American Ancestor my fifth great Grand Father. Great Grand Ma on that side also and her Mother were on the Trail of Tears. At Horsshoe Bend Ancestor's from Dad's Mother's lineage and Mother's lineage fought against each other. Dad's Mother's lineage is the most documented bacck through Ratliff, Path Killer, Standing Turkey and so on. So ironic that most of our Ancestry is First American but we are not considered Native American without that little card. They say we have heritage but not citizenship. As far as the subject ,of European's concduct then and now aagains First Americans it is documented. Even in Canada the European Miners treated First Nations and French heritage Ontario and Citizens as if it was the wild west. In south America the crime is documented. I' mnto going to try and dig it up right now. It doesn't take a whole lot to find records. Most is never reported though.
     
  14. snakeoil

    snakeoil Member

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    My GGF, who fought with the 46th Mississippi ,at the battle of Fort Blakely,was 1/4 Creek ....from William Weatherby...Creek Chief during the Creek Wars..(Andy Jackson pardoned him)after the battle of Horseshoe Bend....He was a plantation owner,as well as a merchant.He sided with the "Red Sticks"....There were free negro farmers that owned slaves according to my grand parents....The Massacre At Fort Mims started the Creek Wars..60 miles from were I now live...
     
  15. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    It was this philosophy and action embraced by your political ancestors that gave us this president. On a silver platter. The fragrant spirit of the past has been so onerous that the nation decided to exorcise it by tossing away the White House for eight years.
     
  16. snakeoil

    snakeoil Member

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    The Saudi's had him elected....not us.....!
     
  17. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    I am not saying you voted for Obama. I am saying that, by whitewashing slavery and the dead cause, you ole boys drove your own children to elect the first African American president because he is black. And he happens to be a social engineer who stole from our life savings for his "affordable care". He is also the guy who gladly takes "no" for an answer from all kinds of international felons.

    I am saying that the lingering apology for southern-led racism has no doubt contributed to the election of Obama, and the social acceptance of crooks like Al Sharpton.

    Edit. My apologies to OP for the drift.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
  18. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    It has gone astray but addressing slavery and racism. where did that come from. Racism largely died of old age. It died in the sixties except for those who profit from keeping it alive. Live and let live. I had several Black Friends. They have all passed as did a Lady who was born a slave, who I spent a little time talking with. Election night 08 saw it brought back big time. It was not only we was did wrong but we gonna get whitey any way we can. Browning America by open borders and offering freebies to Illegal Aliens in the process as Americans are without jobs, income or homes.
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    racism has't died? it's plenty alive in every culture there is in this country. you might need to pull your head out of the sand and stand up in the real world every once in a while.

    it may not be as overt as in years past, but rest assured, racism is still around.
     
  20. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No new information changes the important part of the history of the battle.

    Custer screwed up, he attacked a force much stronger than his own and he lost his long yellow hair, and the hair of his men in the process. Custer's fatal sin was to underestimate his enemy. He should have read Sun Tzu.

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014