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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently a fellow took his Dan Wesson Pointman PM2 to the range to have some fun. What he got instead was mangled brass and constant jamming. He posted a couple of pictures showing the cases.

I looked at the pics and immediately diagnosed an extractor that was losing control of the empty cases during recoil causing them to not eject. The empty cases would then sit on top of the next round in the magazine as it was being fed. The empty cases would then get slammed into the barrel hood. I've experienced this specific malfunction in the past so was confident in my diagnosis.






Eventually the fellow set about removing the extractor from the slide and discovered the firing pin stop had suffered a catastrophic failure. While my diagnosis was technically correct, it wasn't due to a bad extractor as you can see in the picture below. The broken firing pin stop allowed the extractor to clock which caused it lose control of the case.

I don't think I've ever seen a firing pin stop fail like this one.


 

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I had a AK that exhibited the same symptoms, "stove pipe", case didn't eject cleanly out the gun, but was jammed in the ejection port. after examining for a while, come to find out the ejector rail was place 1 or 2mm low, where it wasn't hitting in the center of the case but lower on the case. easy fix there just bent the ejector up 1 or 2mm, and that solved that problem:)
 

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The firing pin stop looks like it was cast.
In the pictures, I see an area with a "new" break in the casting. The brighter area looks like it was the only thing holding it together.

Send the pictures to Dan Wesson.
 

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That is an interesting failure. It looks like a cast part; a little surprising on a high-end gun.

I had a 1911 that would lightly crimp one side of every ejected shell. It would still eject them so I quit worrying about it. I suspect that a little file work on the ejection port would have fixed it but I didn't want to screw up the finish.
 
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I wonder did he buy the gun new? DW claims to use all tool steel parts.

Either way I've never seen a FPS fail like that. My guess it isn't from normal use but that is just a guess
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Broken firing pin stops are very rare. In fact, this was the first one I'd ever seen. However, it apparently is not uncommon for them to crack. Note that the owner put a lot of rounds through the pistol after it began experiencing the functioning problems which eventually led him to discover the broken stop. The firing pin was still being retained by the remaining half of the stop.

The relevant part of the video below starts just after the 5:00 minute mark.

 

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That is definitely a Cast Part!
Cast parts to speak are one of the weakest parts a manufacturer can use. And if not done correctly the first to fail! Ruger is probably the most successful with producing the best Castings.;)
Forged is the strongest and best, followed by MIM! Of course from a production stand point Casting is the least expensive and easiest parts to produce.

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That is definitely a Cast Part!
Cast parts to speak are one of the weakest parts a manufacturer can use. And if not done correctly the first to fail! Ruger is probably the most successful with producing the best Castings.;)
Forged is the strongest and best, followed by MIM! Of course from a production stand point Casting is the least expensive and easiest parts to produce.

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What credentials/experience do you have to support that opinion? Are you a mechanical engineer, metallurgist, certified gunsmith, etc.? How do you know that the firing pin stop was not forged but was left too brittle (not drawn enough) from heat treating?
 

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When he puts it back together, make sure the extractor nose isn't bumping the back of the barrel.
Tolerance stacks can have consequences.
 

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In my distant past worked for a metal and finishing company. In fact I worked with Zimmer USA medical group to come up with a process that increased the life span of their Stellite Hip Joints. Also worked with Allison Aircraft and Rolls Royce Div. with Blades for Jet engines and the F-16 Project.
After that I spent a carrier in Law Enforcement in the Weapons training area and Armorer for the Metro PD.
Later after retiring from LE I spent 23+ Years in the weapon manufacturing business with a well known weapon manufacturer. And still do LE and Govt. Armorer Schools for three major weapons companies.
And you are correct about issues with heat treating. I am very familiar with Rockwell, Micron Finishes, Magniflux Process and other metallurgical aspect. But that part IMO is infact Cast. You can see the Voids in the surface metal of the part.
But as one here said with what I also mentioned earlier Ruger is known for doing an excellent job with Castings.
Also some Mim Parts if don correctly are very reliable.;)

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I'm sure some things have happened but I've never heard of a Ruger casting failure of any kind. As was stated, casting done right has it's place or it wouldn't be done. Drive a car? I enjoy shooting three Rugers and have never had a failure of any kind with them. They have their place and having choices is good.
 

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From the picture of the broken firing pin stop, I see no evidence that it was a cast part. I could have been a machined tool steel part that was left as too brittle (not drawn enough) during the process of heat treatment.
 

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From the picture of the broken firing pin stop, I see no evidence that it was a cast part. I could have been a machined tool steel part that was left as too brittle (not drawn enough) during the process of heat treatment.
And your credentials are?? Sounds like opinion to me.
 

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My credentials are: Associates Degree in Machine Tool Technology, Associates Degree in Metal Processing, a Bachelor's in Industrial Education, and Master's Degree in Training in Business and Industry. I have worked both as a Machine Tool Instructor in public education and an Industrial Trainer in the private sector.
Note that "...I see no evidence that it was a cast part..." does not say that it was or was not. Any steel part can exhibit a grainy structure when it breaks..it is the nature of any brittle metal. It just seemed like people were making an assumption with very little evidence. As you can see Pasquanel, some folks here have credentials in the topic, others are just "Johnny Sixpack" from the end of the bar... and there is no way to tell the difference unless one asks.
 

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I might be a Johnny six pack but it sure looks like cast as far as I can see in the picture. I tend to not care if something is cast or forged because in no way does that determine strength. It’s the actual material that matters more than the process of shaping the part. Curious to know what actually caused the part to break.
 

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I might be a Johnny six pack but it sure looks like cast as far as I can see in the picture. I tend to not care if something is cast or forged because in no way does that determine strength. It’s the actual material that matters more than the process of shaping the part. Curious to know what actually caused the part to break.
"I tend to not care if something is cast or forged because in no way does that determine strength. It’s the actual material..."
So what you are saying there is that Cold Rolled steel is just as strong as Hot Rolled steel (grain structure makes no difference)?
 

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I hate to even respond to this because I’m not an expert in metallurgy but I am someone who works with metals all the time. Cold rolled steel is superior in hardness to hot rolled softer steel but this has zero to do with my statement. I’m a big Ruger fan and own many because of their superior casting techniques. The part looks cast to me and I will stand by that opinion but will add that it was an inferior cast component. Or something else went wrong. If you have something more to add as a professional please keep it in context.
 

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I hate to even respond to this because I’m not an expert in metallurgy but I am someone who works with metals all the time. Cold rolled steel is superior in hardness to hot rolled softer steel but this has zero to do with my statement. I’m a big Ruger fan and own many because of their superior casting techniques. The part looks cast to me and I will stand by that opinion but will add that it was an inferior cast component. Or something else went wrong. If you have something more to add as a professional please keep it in context.
You and me are Ruger fans, Notrighty. I own three of them and they are fine firearms.

I know enough to know that casting, like any other process, has it's place. It is strong, just like a forging is strong in it's place, which isn't every place. I've only spent 40+ years around all kinds of metals and processes. When anyone asks for credentials, I see a fool barking up a dead tree. Right, Notrighty? You have nothing to defend. Meanwhile, back to ammo cases in an old thread.
 
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