Design A "Long Hunter" Rifle...

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Joshua M. Smith, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. Joshua M. Smith

    Joshua M. Smith New Member

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    Hello,

    There's really no rifle out there, that I've found, that is what I consider perfect for my uses.

    If I were to design one, it would go something like this:

    1) Start with an SKS.

    2) Take the barrel down to 16.5" or so.

    3) Mount in a synthetic stock, same dimensions as the original except for the butt stock, which should be 1"-2" longer.

    4) The stock should have a cutout for a folded bayonet. The bayonet should stay on the rifle.

    5) Mount M16 style peep sights on the rear of the cover. The 0-2 should be large for fast action, while the 3 should be small for precision.

    6) I prefer stripper clips.

    7) This is my biggest complaint - Someone needs to offer an aftermarket trigger assembly that breaks like an American trigger and does not slide. It should, however, stay robust.

    8) Large, bright red front sight.

    9) Ambi safety, preferably with a modification to block the sear as well.

    Alternatively, if the M1 carbine could be had in a slightly more powerful cartridge and magazines could be had cheaply, I may substitute that.

    If I have to kill a deer with a ball round though, I'd rather it be from a larger caliber, fast bullet. I also like the penetration of rifle rounds and .30 caliber intermediate rounds vs .22 caliber intermediate rounds.

    Something else I'd strongly consider would be an M1A modified with a fixed magazine and using enbloc clips.

    If you can't tell, I really don't want to lose a limited supply of magazines and turn my rifle into a single shot.

    I'm picturing a light rifle for modern long hunters traveling light and other folks needing lots of accurate firepower to make up for small numbers. Sorta' like a modern Kentucky/Pennsylvania rifle, but quicker to load.

    My SKS is pretty close to what I listed; it doesn't not have a synthetic stock or a shortened barrel however, and I'm still trying to get the trigger to work like I want it to.

    Any of those would work for me with the modifications mentioned.

    If you could design any (legal) rifle for a long hunt, what would it be, and why? For the long hunt, the goal would be 100 miles in 5 days.

    Josh <><
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Dude, you lost me when you said the words "Hunter" and "SKS" in the same post.

    They cancel each other out I am afraid.... Unless by "hunter" you mean hunting humans, in which case I would still opt for a different package...

    JD
     

  3. Joshua M. Smith

    Joshua M. Smith New Member

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    The SKS is perfectly capable of taking deer...

    That said, a LONG HUNTER was sort of an informal forward scout of the new United States. Think Daniel and Squire Boone, for example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_hunter

    In other words, if you were doing this today, what rifle would you take? If they don't make it, design it. Remember it's for killing food to eat and for defending yourself against both two and four legged attackers.

    Josh <><
     
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Yep, still lost me with the letters SKS -

    I never said it wasn't good for taking deer, I am just saying designing a rifle from the ground up for traveling, hiking and shooting, that wouldn't be the first choice of the folks I know.

    But, the best thing is, without us buying them, there are plenty more available for you and yours.

    JD
     
  5. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    I'm lost. I carried an M16A2, M4 or M249 when I was a "long hunter".

    Oh hey, an M4, that would be perfect and you wouldn't even need to tapco**** an SKS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  6. ScottG

    ScottG New Member

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    Aren't you just looking for a lever gun??? :D
     
  7. freefall

    freefall New Member

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    yah, Marlin 336 30-30. What more do you want?
     
  8. Joshua M. Smith

    Joshua M. Smith New Member

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    Just asking what you all would personally choose. I'm not looking for anything in particular. I already have my knock about guns and am looking at the AR platforms right now, and saving my pennies.

    Josh <><
     
  9. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    An AR with a 14 1/2" barrel would be as close to perfect as you'll get for the application, but would require an SBR tax stamp (more on this later). You don't get the permanently attached bayonet, but you do get the lug, so you can fix a bayonet in the event that you ever really needed to. The M9 bayonet is a pretty stout unit and I'd bet money that it would hold up to combat better than the SKS unit.

    2) Take the barrel down to 16.5" or so.

    Check, with the direct connect muzzle break mentioned later, you'd be just short of that.

    3) Mount in a synthetic stock, same dimensions as the original except for the butt stock, which should be 1"-2" longer.

    Check

    4) The stock should have a cutout for a folded bayonet. The bayonet should stay on the rifle.

    Nope

    5) Mount M16 style peep sights on the rear of the cover. The 0-2 should be large for fast action, while the 3 should be small for precision.


    Check

    6) I prefer stripper clips.

    You'd still need magazines, but USGI ammo comes packaged in strippers.
    Check

    7) This is my biggest complaint - Someone needs to offer an aftermarket trigger assembly that breaks like an American trigger and does not slide. It should, however, stay robust.

    Check - After market triggers are available that make the AR platform feel like a bolt gun.

    8) Large, bright red front sight.

    Fingernail polish - Check

    9) Ambi safety, preferably with a modification to block the sear as well.

    Available in the after market - Check

    The M4 (clone AR) is the perfect platform for what you want to do. You'll spend double what you would with the SKS, but in the end fit and finish will be superior to a tapco****ed SKS. Accuracy and effective range will also be superior to said SKS, this will give you the added benefit of having to carry less ammo.

    Ideally, if you live in a free state and can legally posses Class III items, I'd look for a Colt Model 610B/GAU-5 lower and put an M4 upper on it. To that upper, I'd add some sort of combat optics, a quick connect flash suppressor and get a decent sound suppressor to attach to it. This would give you the benefit of being able to drop your "game" without alerting them to your presence. Again, this adds to your lethality, which in turn saves you ammo.

    The 610B type CAR-15 has a 4 way selector with no stops. It can be turned 360º in either direction. Burst on the 610Bs is also tunable from 2 rounds to 6 rounds.

    I'm not a fan of the AR platform as a battle rifle, but it can and will do what you're asking it to do perfectly. If you're willing to spend the money and do the footwork, you could easily build a modern, ultra lethal "long hunter" rifle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  10. MXFun86

    MXFun86 New Member

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    Is it just me or have a few of you missed what the original poster said? No matter how many times he says the same thing, he gets an ignorant reply? He asked for YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE... not what you thought of his. I'm just surprised how some folks responded.

    Now on to the topic, while the SKS is a fairly stout rifle, I personally find it too front heavy. Mine has a T-6 stock on it but still feels awful in my hands so it deff wouldn't be my first choice. And although I love my AR platform, its just too heavy all around for a long trip, and doesn't pack much punch for all that weight. Out of all the avaiable platforms out there, the Springfield SOCOM II in .308 would be my choice. In fact, I'm so impressed with the rifle that I doubt I'd make any changes.
     
  11. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    When was the last time that you packed around an M4gery or a SOCOM? The SOCOM is a poorly functioning platform and it's half again the weight of an M4. An M4 weighs just shy of 7 pounds with a full 30 rd. mag and has provisions to mount optics without expensive and unstable additions. It's a combat proven platform. The SOCOM II, which oddly enough isn't used by a single troop assigned to SOCOM, weighs in at whopping 10.5 pounds, empty.

    Your argument comes down to weight, but it fails miserably and calls on an unproven and reportedly unreliable platform, that is much heavier than others mentioned in other arguments.

    We all stated our "PERSONAL PREFERENCE". If you didn't like what we had to say, don't post. Besides, I've moved well over 100 miles in much less than 5 days with M60s and M249s, yet they don't fit most of his requirements, nor does the SOCOM. I'd do the job he's describing with an SEI Milspec Crazy Horse M14 SDM and a couple thousand rounds in a heartbeat though, as long as I had reliable optics and a good can.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  12. MXFun85

    MXFun85 New Member

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    Its funny that you use the term "argument" when describing my comments. I wasn't arguing with anyone. I merely said MY M4. Do you know how much MY M4 weighs? And once again, he didn't ask anyone to build his rifle. He asked what people would prefer for themselves. I would prefer the SOCOM II. Perhaps you should pay a little closer attention before you get upset. My comment wasn't about people not expressing what they liked, but people slamming other peoples preferences. Notice I didn't say anything negative about your choice? Perhaps its not my fave, but thats no reason to express unsupported negativity about it. Its one thing to say you dislike something, quite another to try to make out another person as foolish for liking it. Just like a person who likes the SKS as opposed to one who does not. While I've noticed some of the threads on here are very helpful, I've also noticed that theres a lot of pettiness on here as well. Considering this is the only post I've put up thats drew a negative response and now I'm "banned" for a few days... just seems odd. You're also not the only person to have ever carried an M249 around for a bit. Just cause I've done it doesn't mean I liked it. I personally like to stay as light as possible while maintaining a round I see as adequate for anything I may encounter. I'd like to say I'm sorry I offended you, but I'm not. The comment was not directed at you, nor did it contain anything offensive in it in my opinion. The intent was to draw attention to the original posters question. And as to the "when was the last time..." comment, I carried an M4 in the Army almost the entire time I was in sir. I also hunt with my SOCOM. Now I'll admit thats not the same as carrying it for days on end, but you do get a feel for the rifle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  13. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    MXfun:

    Argument, (Noun):

    1: a: a reason given in proof or rebuttal
    b: discourse intended to persuade

    2: a: the act or process of arguing
    b: a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion

    The word "argument" carries negative connotation, but many times, when people share ideas it is an argument. Any time one or more views are presented, it is an argument.

    There is nothing un-civil happening in this thread, it's merely a group of people presenting viewpoints.
     
  14. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    What is it exactly that we are arguing over?

    I take it long hunters were some kind of LRP unit in the military. Mine would be an M-4 with safe semi burst and full selector. I want a 32" SS highly polished barrel with a scaled down fully auto 40mm granade launcher uder neith it.

    My god newbie got some BIG huevos rancheros. talkin to the mods like that. WOW atleast I didn't start until I had a few hundred post under my belt....

    Now I keep matt busy nukin my posts.
     
  15. MXFun86

    MXFun86 New Member

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    An argument implies that a comment was designed for a response from others. As its an opinion, and an expression of my thoughts, it was not intended in that way. Now to say you personally disagree with my choice is one thing. To imply that I am unknowledgable, and when you ask someone "when was the last time you..." it carries a note of arrogance. Perhaps not what was intended, but the whole point is that we should be able to talk with out it turning into a pissing match. I'll be the first to say "ignorant" was a poor word choice on my part.