[oO_Rogue_Oo]

The defunding police goes against gov gaining total control.
The police are the front line Gov will use to remove guns and civil liberties. It's what the police have historically been used for.
You'll notice no defunding of fed LE. Federal LE will be the only force available to use to try to confiscate guns and enforce gov decrees.
The military will not allow itself to be used to conquer it's own people.
NG will only be involved until it realizes what it is being used for and them by and large quit.
That's the reason every federal agency right down to the dept of education is armed and have their own swat or assault teams. In order to try to build a federal police force capable of securing control of the citizenry.
It's far from being able too is the ONLY reason things like forcible gun confiscation have not been implemented.

You got that Azz backwards. If a government is trying to get the people under control, they hire more police. (Brown shirts, SS, Gestapo, OVRA, KGB, Kempeitai, for a few.)

Okay I guess I should be more specific. First / NG or Federal agency the affect is basically the same. For years now I've been hearing discussions of federalizing the police. Local / decentralized police departments offer too many opportunities for deviation and independent thinking. A federal agency of some type, with central control would be enabled by de-funding local departments to the point that they become ineffective and require assistance. Just a silly question but what happens in the states where they are actively passing laws contrary to federal law (call them non compliance laws, if you will) if the police get federalized in any way?

 

[Ghost1958]

No, pararnoid delusion.

I and others have listed the multitude of historical facts of acts by gov and LE thst prove beyond doubt that Gov both state and Fed, and in general LE are the sole actors in removing or infringing on individual even group liberties.
So I'm not going thru the laundry list of historical FACTs where that has been the case for 100 yrs or more, again.

I know you wont but all of it is easily researched.

 

[locutus]

There will be no federalization of police. I doubt that even liberals would tolerate that.

 

[Ghost1958]

Okay I guess I should be more specific. First / NG or Federal agency the affect is basically the same. For years now I've been hearing discussions of federalizing the police. Local / decentralized police departments offer too many opportunities for deviation and independent thinking. A federal agency of some type, with central control would be enabled by de-funding local departments to the point that they become ineffective and require assistance. Just a silly question but what happens in the states where they are actively passing laws contrary to federal law (call them non compliance laws, if you will) if the police get federalized in any way?

The Fed can , or at least has gotten by with , having federal LE officers.
But the Fed cannot forcibly take control of state LE.
It would take an act of congress which would be moot as states may constitutionally ignore any act of congress, and would.

Plus few state level LE would go along as few have any desire to be federal agents. All I ever knew didnt trust of like having to work with Federal authorities. Much less become one.

And there is the civilian factor.
Try federalizeing all police and all the riots this nation has ever seen will look like overnight campouts.

Never will happen.

 

[manta]

Your opinion. A wrong opinion but still your opinion.

You cant bring in what isnt available.
Plus even if Le could have matched protesters numbers , which is impossible even in big cities btw, why rely on that when you can out number and outgun the potential rioters 50 to 100 to 1. ?

Not to mention the CAUSE of the protests and the object of the protestors anger IS the police. The more LE is present the more angry and prone to violence the mobs become knowing LE aline does not possess the ability to stop them .

Things work different here. The culture is different here. The people are different here. You are never going to understand.

Police do not have to match rioters numbers to stop them. The police being the object of the rioters anger is not a good reason not to confront them, anything else is abandoning their duty. You say people act differently there, in what way in regards to what we are talking about ? i will try my best to understand.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Okay I guess I should be more specific. First / NG or Federal agency the affect is basically the same. For years now I've been hearing discussions of federalizing the police. Local / decentralized police departments offer too many opportunities for deviation and independent thinking. A federal agency of some type, with central control would be enabled by de-funding local departments to the point that they become ineffective and require assistance. Just a silly question but what happens in the states where they are actively passing laws contrary to federal law (call them non compliance laws, if you will) if the police get federalized in any way?

We all know what would happen in areas like the East Coast and West Coast that are filled with liberal progressives. They will be more corrupt than they already are by having their brown shirts do their bidding. Hitlers riche reborn.

 

[locutus]

Antifa and BLM. America's answer to the Sturmabteilung. (SA)

If the police are the cause of them rioting, then more power to the police.

Perhaps we need an American version of "The Night of the Long Knives."(Nacht der langen messer)

 

[Ghost1958]

Police do not have to match rioters numbers to stop them. The police being the object of the rioters anger is not a good reason not to confront them, anything else is abandoning their duty. You say people act differently there, in what way in regards to what we are talking about ? i will try my best to understand.

I see you've never been in position to try to stop a group of folks bent on looting, burning, killing , etc. Hence the statement police dont have to match their numbers.
There is no point in me trying to make you understand An
Americans in general when they are fed up with something. I've watched more intelligent people than me try.
During this whole summer until now, police, even with NG help have only been able to possibly herd rioters from one street to another. Not once has that combination STOPPED a riot. Anywhere.
Nor prevented a protest from becoming violent.

That has only occurred where armed citizenry has show up in much greater numbers than the protestors. When that happens either the protestors dont go ahead with the protest or if they do it's a very peaceful protest.

 

[manta]

I see you've never been in position to try to stop a group of folks bent on looting, burning, killing , etc. Hence the statement police dont have to match their numbers.

You think. I have seen plenty of riots they were a daily occurrence here with the police outnumbered 10 to 1, and the police dealing with them. Your statement that the police need matching numbers to stop rioters etc, has me questioning your knowledge on the subject.

There is no point in me trying to make you understand Anericans in general when they are fed up with something. I've watched more intelligent people than me try.

Thought so, you talk about Americans like they all think the same. From what i have seen lately, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Ghost1958]

You think, i have seen plenty of riots they were a daily occurrence here with the police outnumbered 10 to 1 and the police dealing with them. Your statement that the police need matching numbers to stop rioters etc, has me questioning your knowledge on the subject.



Thought so, you talk about Americans like they all think the same. From what i have seen lately nothing could be further from the truth.

I've been in the position of having to try to deal with large angry crowds .
Police " dealing" with rioters is just a catch phrase that cops were someplace near.
Not that they Stopped the rioting.
Creating a perimeter and trying to hold it is not stopping the riot.
Pushing rioting mob from one street or block to the next isnt stopping a riot. Its just spreading the destruction.

Police can police as long as a large enough group of people do not retract the permission to be policed. At that point the police are simply in the way of citizens protecting themselves ala Kyle Rittenhouse. Once beaten one direction its easy to take out frustration on single non adversarial target as happened in that case and does in many others.

 

[JTJ]

Manta, your police may not have their hands tied by liberal idiot mayors and city councils that actually go out and support the rioters/protestors.

 

[Ghost1958]

Antifa and BLM. America's answer to the Sturmabteilung. (SA)

If the police are the cause of them rioting, then more power to the police.

Perhaps we need an American version of "The Night of the Long Knives."(Nacht der langen messer)

Police action in specific cases got the riot ball rolling. No debating that.

I'm curious. Is there any situation in any universe where your stance is not more power to the police?

 

[manta]

Manta, your police may not have their hands tied by liberal idiot mayors and city councils that actually go out and support the rioters/protestors.

Makes me question why people do not vote them out.

 

[Ghost1958]

You think. I have seen plenty of riots they were a daily occurrence here with the police outnumbered 10 to 1, and the police dealing with them. Your statement that the police need matching numbers to stop rioters etc, has me questioning your knowledge on the subject.



Thought so, you talk about Americans like they all think the same. From what i have seen lately, nothing could be further from the truth.

You'll note I said Americans.
Not sheeple. Not socialists. Not those who will follow the gov lie regardless and who place their survival in the hands of police when the police 99% of the time wont be there until there is nothing left to do but measure and make chalklines

 

[Oldoutlaw]

Makes me question why people do not vote them out.

They have been indoctrinated for years to follow a Party Line in their areas. One reason.

 

[locutus]

Police action in specific cases got the riot ball rolling. No debating that.

I'm curious. Is there any situation in any universe where your stance is not more power to the police?

Since the people protesting the police actions are low life scum-bags, I see no good reason not to support more power to the police.

 

[Notrighty]

Some people protesting police actions were correct in doing so however as the sun went down the scum took over their message was lost. Would have had more respect for the peaceful protesters if they would have rejected the scum.

 

[Ghost1958]

Since the people protesting the police actions are low life scum-bags, I see no good reason not to support more power to the police.

But. Not all of them are " low life scum bags". There is that element that inserts itself into groups of peaceful protestors who in some cases , not all cases , have a legitimate concern , and use those protests as an opportunity to loot, riot, etc etc.

The floyd case was a legitimate concern.

So was the Taylor case.
Some of those " lowlife scumbags " genuinely tried to peacefully protest those police actions.
And should. The agitators who cause all the trouble should be all jailed but that is always going to be beyond police capability.

But my question was is there ANY situation where your pat answer isnt more power, more equipment, more authority given to police .
Genuine question because I've never seen you give any other response since I've been here.

 

[JTJ]

Makes me question why people do not vote them out.

Who was that mayor in London? Red Fred? We now have global idiots. I have no clue how any rational adult could vote for some of the elected officials.

 

[Notrighty]

Uneducated voters are not restricted to living in the USA. I think I read somewhere American Indian voters were given gift cards to vote Democrat in Nevada.