DA/SA... What's not to love?

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by ScottA, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Sometime in the last few weeks, I recall someone saying "I wouldn't carry a DA/SA for CCW". That got me scratching my head.

    Other than the different trigger pull on the first shot, what's not to like about a DA/SA for personal protection and carry?
     
  2. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    That long creepy trigger on the first shot. 1911 Cocked and locked, only way to go.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i dont have any issue flipping the safety off left handed with my 1911. lots of ambi safeties out there for 1911.

    da triggers arent very good even in follow up shots. when you have fired a lot of da and sa you will see exactly why tons of folks prefer the 1911 over da and glocks.
     
  4. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    IMHO, there are pros and cons to all of the options (DA, DA/SA, SA only etc.).

    The most important thing is whatever you choose you've got to practice, practice, practice until operating that weapon becomes second nature.
     
  5. misterballistic

    misterballistic New Member

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    A single action only 1911 in Condition One is not the ONLY way to go, but one of many ways to go.

    Some people don't advocate it because of the extra step of undoing a safety first which is an extra step. Yes, it's an easy interim step under ideal conditions but one that could be problematic under stress.

    Sorry, but I don't think the DA on many of the better guns like Sig Sauer, CZ, Beretta, are that bad at all. Not enough to throw out the baby with the bath water by not carrying a SA/DA in "condition 2" double action.

    Cock and locked means potentially fumbling with an extra control (usually) with your thumb. Also, if it doesn't have a firing pin block then there's another potential problem.

    Condition 2 means just pointing and pulling the trigger. Most modern guns have decockers to safely lower the hammer each and every time so that's not often an issue either.

    Some pistols, like the HK's in V3, offer both a decocker and safety so you can decide what works best so it's not an issue.

    It's all about options and what style suits you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  6. General_lee

    General_lee New Member

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    Personally I like the idea of DA/SA.
    I have a CZ 70 that's DA/SA with safety and decocker, the trigger doesn't bother me at all.
    I carry my 1911 most of the time, especially at work because I can open carry there.
    I guess I like both trigger styles about equally.
    really been thinking about getting either a Sig P226, or a CZ75 as soon as the money allows.
     
  7. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    If i decide to carry, it will probably be an XD compact or one of those lil Kahr PM's; i want to KISS for me.

    I have seriously enjoyed the CZ75b i picked up used. The lack of a slide stop is a bit odd at first, but only when you are looking the pistol over, not when you are actually using it. Look around; i picked mine up for $400 with nothing worse than some very minor discoloration on part of the slide, which i probably will get coated anyway.
     
  8. Dave T

    Dave T New Member

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    My objection to DA/SA handguns is you have to learn 2 quite different trigger pulls. If you actually learn them, well then you may do well. The vast majority of people I've seen shooting DA/SA weapons will insert a magazine, rack the slide and commence shooting, i.e. never even try the DA feature. If someone does activate the safety and drop the hammer for the first shot, then they get one DA pull and the rest SA. What's wrong with that you ask? The first shot in a defensive situation is likely to be the most important...yet it is the one practiced by owners of DA/SA guns the least.

    A consistent trigger pull, one that's the same for every shot, is the optimum. I won't get into an argument about the virtues of cocked & locked despite carrying that way for all but the first 9 months of my LEO career. I will point out that one of the reasons for the success of the Glock is, it has the same trigger pull for each shot. Not a particualrly clean or crisp trigger but the same each time, none-the-less.

    Dave
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i second this. i shoot my guns a lot. i dryfire a lot. i feel confident with my da autos and my sa. both styles are second nature to me. it takes a concious effort on my part not to swipe the safety off when i casually pick up my 1911's. swiping the safety is an automatic reflex to me. i often find myself having to re-engage the safety just picking one up off the nightstand.
     
  10. Cnynrat

    Cnynrat New Member

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    I agree you need to do some extra work to get the feel of the first DA pull down since at best you only get that first shot in each mag. One of my drills on most trips to the range with my Sig is to shoot a couple mags in DA only (i.e. drop the hammer between each shot).
     
  11. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    If you carry, then you should practice constantly. If you can't master a double action/single action trigger then maybe you shouldn't carry that weapon at all. IMHO...
     
  12. pointblank4445

    pointblank4445 New Member

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    What he said. I know of too many guys that "write off" that first round if they shoot the first round DA. It goes without saying that this is an awful, awful idea. If you say to yourself:
    "I can just thumb the hammer back on my draw.....", you are still adding to the complication of the scenario.

    Not to say you can't/shouldn't carry a da/sa gun. Just know that you should invest at least 2x the effort to master two different trigger pulls (or hammer thumbing should you choose). Simpler options exist, but variety is the spice of life.
     
  13. WDB

    WDB New Member

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    I doubt many write off the first round, it is how you should practice so you are capable SA or DA. If you are not capable to put the round where it needs to be practice more often or chose another firearm. DA IMHO is the way to go for many shooter, the first trigger pull is more than those that follow but in a time of need not a bad thing. The less you have to concern yourself with in the split second the better IMO. Might be the wrong person to ask as I carry a striker fired pistol most of the time to balance the trigger pull and to maximize my ability in my time of need.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010
  14. pointblank4445

    pointblank4445 New Member

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    I still see a lot of recruits come through with sig 22x SA/DA pistols. You would be surprised how many have the mentality to just put the first one somewhere in center mass and then start going to work with the gun in SA. These are also the same guys who will try to qualify by only firing the gun in SA. Try as we might to convince them that their first shot can be just as accurate (as it should be since it is the FIRST shot), but the recruit knows darn well that it takes 2-3x the trigger pull and see it as 2-3x the work to get a good shot.
     
  15. pumpkinball

    pumpkinball New Member

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    I carry Thunder 380 as a primary right now. I love the gun and the DA/SA is one of the biggest factors that sold me on the weapon. I've practiced quick draw alot and been timed numerous times. I have actually wondered the same thing, so while practicing both methods, I actually carefully holstered my dad's Thunder (before I decided to get mine) and the DA pull didn't slow me down enough to be able to clock a difference. And I didn't have to flip the safety. As a carry piece, I prefer DA or DA/SA.
     
  16. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    DA/SA triggers take a little getting used to. As you can read the average 1911 fan will see this as useless time and energy. I too carry a 1911 a lot of the time but I've been carrying a Sig Sauer 229 too. It's all really muscle memory and once you get the feel down it's not hard to shoot either way.

    There's a reason there are so many different types of handguns out there. THere's a whole heapin' helpin' of different people around and they all want what they want from their handgun for any number of reasons. Getting to know more than one type of trigger for me is a good thing. I find it's a lot easier for me to pick something up and be effective with it right off the bat.

    Want to try something really funky check out the Para LDA triggers.
     
  17. Biohazurd

    Biohazurd New Member

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    Yes single action is my favorite operating system. But i own many DA/SA guns and i love them all very much. Their the children i never had lol...
     
  18. misterballistic

    misterballistic New Member

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    IMO this is one of the more intelligent comments I have seen at a gun forum! Absolutely you have to take into consideration the context and purpose of the gun and lots of people fail to do this and end up comparing apples to oranges.

    For a competition, or race gun, many may prefer a SA only with a very light and consistent trigger pull. In fact, many competition variants are so simplified that many do not even have a firing pin block.

    But you don't want a "hair trigger" on a combat/tactical/LE purpose gun -- especially LE. Chances are that if you have your gun out in this environment then you are probably pointing it at someone and the last thing you need is your finger brushing the trigger and taking the guy out before knowing if it's the right guy or not!

    This is where DA/SA with a 10lb/5lb pull with a bit of trigger creep, or even DAO, might be a better option in this context.

    I see many people complaining about the long trigger pull and resets on combat guns like Berettas, and HK's (talking V3; not LEM). But has it occurred to these people that it is that way by design? It's meant to be used by someone probably wearing thick leather gloves, and under a lot of stress at the time. That heavy pull and reset, and trigger creep, is feedback to the user. It's a way of the gun asking the user, "Are you sure?"
     
  19. Jay

    Jay New Member

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    The extra step is no more problematic than learning two completely different trigger pulls. One is NOT better than the other. It's all personal preference. Folks may as well debate whether it's better to wear black socks or white ones.
     
  20. vjf915

    vjf915 New Member

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    Because for carry, you want to take out AS MANY variables as you possibly can. When there is an inconsistency in trigger pulls in a high stress situation (when you don't have the mental ability to focus on that) it can easily reduce accuracy.