Cryogenic Treatment?

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing Forum' started by littletex, May 7, 2007.

  1. littletex

    littletex New Member

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    Can anyone comment on the effectiveness of cryogenic treatment on guns? What should I expect as the expense?
     
  2. BrassMonkey

    BrassMonkey New Member Supporter

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    I don't own any guns that have had this done, however in discussions I have had with those that do the general idea is that 99% of shooters will never notice the difference.
     

  3. westernamerican

    westernamerican New Member

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    Exactly what does this do for a gun? :confused:
     
  4. Splatter

    Splatter New Member

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    I haven't had a chance to have it done on any firearms yet; but i have seen it used on saw chains and the really big bandsaw blades used in saw mills (like 8" wide and 25 feet long), and in both those situations the increase in life was quite substantial.
    The next target rifle barrel I have done, will be getting cryo'd, if for no other (possible) reason than the increased wear resistance.
     
  5. Dgunsmith

    Dgunsmith New Member

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    CYRO = Snake Oil ?

    CYRO is a technology without legitimate parents in any manufacturing process.
    In actual tests of 10 random rifles, it made little difference or made accuracy worse !

    Selection of premium ammunition compents or carefully engineered hand loads will make more difference.

    In super=premium barrels, It may increase life of the barrel and performance.
    Les Baer's AR's...the most accurate AR's on the planet, have very high quality barrels in materials, interior finish and are double cyro treated prior to Bear Coat which then heat stress relieves the barrels with the barrel extension in place = under 1/2 MOA accuracy with almost any ammunition.

    JMHO :cool:
     
  6. JoeLee

    JoeLee New Member

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    Dgunsmith,Telling it like it is!!
     
  7. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    Cyro

    In my experience building custom rifles(I'm a gunsmith also,going on 27 years)it has become standard for me to have barrels cyrogenically treated on all of the full custom rifles I build. What this does is relieve stress differently than conventional methods.
    The main reason I do this is because it has proven for barrels to impact same poi regardless of temp. This eliminates all barrel "walking" as it heats up. This means all shots will impact same as first shot from cold bore.
    Of course I only send barrels off to be treated after chambering, threading, and hand lapping. This in paticular comes in very handy and is desired in ultralight hunting rifles.
     
  8. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    I've got some bad news, the stress relieving that they're doing is undoing the cryogenic treatment.
     
  9. Catfish

    Catfish New Member

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    I was talking to a BR shooter that has all of his barrels Cyroed. I asked him if it really helped. His reply was , " I don`t know, but it don`t hurt."
    There are so many other thing that have a far greater effect on accuracy it is way down the list on things to make a rifle more accurate, and the cost of haveing it done will make it foolish to have done in 99% + of all rifles.
     
  10. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    cyro

    I completely disagree with some of yall as I have had it done on dozens of barrels and it's PROVEN by 1sthand experience that is DOES NOT make them shoot worse!!! I'm basing this on my personal experience as building custom rifles HAPPENS to be my specialty. The main improvement I've seen consistently is barrels treated do not tend to "walk" as they heat up.
     
  11. greydog

    greydog Member

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    In general, cryogenic treatment is one of those things that falls into the "it won't hurt" category. Amongst barrelmakers, Krieger is an advocate, others are not.
    Cryogenic treatment will not relieve stress in a barrel blank as will conventional stress relieving by heating. Those makers who cryo treat their barrels also stress relieve prior to the cryo.
    If there is any real improvement imparted by the cryogenic treatment, it is probably an improvement in surface finish and machinability. I doubt that it is cure for a poor shooting barrel but it won't hurt a good one and may make it last longer.
    In the end, cryogenic treatment is really unproven. If a barrel is not stress free, cryo is unlikely to make it so. If it is stress free (and most good custom barrels are) cryo MIGHT add to barrel life by improving interior bore finish and durability. Will it double barrel life? No, it will not. Will it cut groups in half? No, it will not. Will it do any harm? Again, no, it will not. GD
     
  12. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    cyroing

    Greydog-respectfully you are only partially correct. It won't make a bad barrel a good barrel. To better understand the process,cyro isn't only cold treating only-it's also heat treating. You should see cyro process as final stress relieving. I happen to make a "livin" building custom rifles so I see a lot of rifle barrels. The main benefit that has been proven to me over dozens if not hundreds of barrels is it stops barrels from walking. This is based on my personal 1st hand experience.
     
  13. greydog

    greydog Member

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    I've not come across one of those "walking" barrels. Even some which were obviously not stress relieved and which required straightening during the contouring process, never walked when tested. Those barrels which were properly stress relieved never moved when contoured and certainly never walked during shooting.
    I have eschewed cryogenic treatment (except when I use a Krieger barrel since they come that way!) simply because I've not felt the need and the evidence supporting it is largely anecdotal. You are obviously a fan. I know a large number of fellow 'smiths and competitive shooters who are not. I'm sure there is some validity to some of the claims but, when uncryo'd barrels are shooting under .2 moa, I'm satisfied. GD
     
  14. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    Cyro

    Cyroing won't magically cure all barrel ailments-even I'M not THAT much of a "fan". But when I have seen it work on dozens of barrels FIRSTHAND,there's gotta be something to it. And NO,it ain't a blanket cure-NOTHING in our world is warranted to be.
    Pleaselook back and you'll see where I NEVER said it will make them more accurate-just more stabile.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  15. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Krieger

    Just a quick point - We install a ton of Krieger Barrels in our shop, and while we do not Cryo any of them, we are very big fans of the good folks at Krieger. However, Krieger DOES NOT Cryo their barrels - They Cryo the steel that is used prior to making a barrel. While the Cryo process has both positives and negatives, it should be noted that Krieger is not submitting their finished barrels to the Cryo process.

    Respectfully,

    D
     
  16. surshotz4

    surshotz4 New Member

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    if they treat the steel prior to turning them into barrels isnt it a fair assumsion that the barrel itself is treated... the effect of the treatment doean't matter when the treatment takes place, it can be before the barrel is made or after.
     
  17. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Everyone do you realize that this ZOMBIE thread is 3 years old?
     
  18. rifleman55

    rifleman55 New Member

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    If you have an old style Mini 14, get it Cryoed, you want to see a rifle it really works on, the old mini is it.

    It proves just how well a thin barrel that has stress in it benifits from the process.

    Ruger for whatever seems to cut their barrels to induce maximum stress.

    It will cut groups in half on a warm or hot mini barrel.

    John K