Coyotes ect.

Discussion in 'Hunting Forum' started by FatTire, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    Not to sound like a tree hugging (I don't JUST hug em) radical liberal (ok, maybe a little), but this is an honest question...

    Why are we killing coyotes, wolves, ect?
     
  2. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    coyotes, and wolves are bringing other animals numbers down to drastically. by as much as 1/3 in some places. such animals like pheasent, turkey, rabbit, deer and elk.... with 1/3 going to the coyotes and wolves, 1/3 going to harsh weather and starvation it does not leave a lot left to maintain good herd numbers.
     

  3. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    About 40% of the diet of coyotes that live near urban areas in this state is house cats. Some people don't like that. People that raise sheep, chickens, cats, small dogs, etc don't like to see those animals eaten by coyotes, same with larger livestock and wolves. If you were a wildlife department trying to maintain as large of game populations as possible for hunters(where 95% of your funding comes from), wouldn't you want to safely cut down on predators (and at the same time provide more hunting opportunities)?
     
  4. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    Hmmm, that explanation doesn't seem to make sense, given that predators tend to kill the weakest of the herd, so they wouldn't have lasted the winters anyway...
     
  5. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    See this explanation seems to me to say that predatory animals are simply a money equation, just another unlucky group (perhaps they didn't work hard enough) in the capitalist game
     
  6. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Well-Known Member

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    Down here we kill every coyote we can.They can really have an effect on killing calves,sheep,goats,and any pets that they can get.

    Coyotes have very few predators in Texas,and they can cost ranchers a lot of money if they are allowed to kill only a few head of livestock.
    We bait them with the big boar feral hogs that we shoot,and usually get several a week at my friends ranch.
     
  7. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    heres some info to help you see.

    • The Northern Yellowstone elk herd trend count has dropped from some 19,000 elk in 1995 before the introduction of the Canadian Gray wolf to just over 6,000 elk in 2008. At the same time the wolf numbers in this same area are on a steady increase.

    • Yellowstone’s Madison Firehole elk herd trend count has fallen from 700 to 108.

    • The Gallatin Canyon elk herd trend count between Bozeman and Big Sky, Mont., has declined from 1,048 to 338.

    • Wolf numbers in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming have far exceeded the original goal of 30 breeding pairs and 300 total wolves. Population estimates now exceed 1,700 wolves, yet others want to push the total up to 2,000 to 5,000 wolves.

    http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=3243
     
  8. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    Does it make sense to you that 300 wolves take more elk than all the hunters do? That dog don't hunt for me
     
  9. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    Again, that's a money reason, a product of an unsustainable economic system, and to me does not justify killing an animal. Now, if you catch em in the act, that would be another story, but I'm sure that would be too much work
     
  10. Flat Tire

    Flat Tire New Member

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    The deer and elk in Idaho are just like corn in Nebraska. If the number of permits are reduced each year and the hunters stop coming to Idaho, then the wolves are killing a lot of business. Whitetail hunting in Texas is a 200 million dollar industry. The biggest problem in Idaho is the wolves were protected in the courts for too long. Now that we have had some hunts, things will balance out and all will be good. But when the wolf was protected and they just kept reducing the number of elk tags each year people were getting upset. The other strange thought for some people is nature doesn't control this, man does. Man brought this large canadian wolf to Idaho in a truck. This large wolf was never here before, and they do eat the sick and weak, and then they eat the next weakest. BUT HALF THE HEARD ISN'T SICK OR WEAK !!!

    One wolf eats two elk a month, so 24 elk a year. so 300 wolves take 7200 elk a year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  11. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Several years ago a coyote ran through someone's backyard near me (nw Ohio) and snatched a lapdog in front of the owners eyes. When they get the nerve to do that they are one step away from grabbing a toddler for lunch. To argue about keeping predators in check on a hunting forum seems like trolling. What CITY do you reside in? :-E
     
  12. hardluk1

    hardluk1 Active Member

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    FatTire your not a hunter , right? If you were you would or should have a better understanding of how bad they can be. Even in the south where there is NOTHING to kill coyotes except humans they do tend to raise hell with the babies of all young animals. They will find the calves and kill them, new born deer. your pets. They do tend to pack and when you have 10 or 12 coyotes they can eat a fawn or calve ever day. They also don't eat the whole animal. Leave more meat behind than the tend to eat. And catch them in the act, really. Coyotes can cover many miles a ground a day and there allways looking for something to kill.

    If you don't want to try to understand, your part of the problem. Many of us hear the packs at night working there way across the country side, even the cry's of calfs and fawns or pets as there being killed. There is nothing we can do at night unless you own a 4000 dollar nigh scope and happen to be in the right spot. Here today , next county tomorrow. The next morning you will find the damage if you look. I find people will not allow you to hunt for them till coyotes kill some damd tree huggers pets then there ready to kill them all. The same thing can happen with deer when die-hard vegan tree huggers that love to have way to many deer around then pitch a fit when deer finally break into a community garden and they eat everthing over night. Then they are ready to kill deer. Closed minded people can be blind to what happens right under there nose till its to late. You have to work to keep nature in balance . To much of anything is not good. A balance has to be mantained. For coyotes and wolfs death of heathy animals does not happen on its own. It then makes it very hard to mantain anything close to a balance. Even for deer, were people whine about hunting, deer populations have grown and have moved into suburban life and eat anything thang that they find to there taste. Same has startered with bears. People move into a rural area and seem to do ever thing they can to see wild life around there house and the cycle starts agin. Have enough nice taste thin skinned wild life around and coyotes will come. Even in chicago they have coyotes running around the city . Forget about the one lone ,they think coyote in central park, new york. Guess the local gang bangers can kill a few, right?? Here doggy doggy!! Maybe the coyotes win that battle, one way to cut down on gang violence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  13. Flat Tire

    Flat Tire New Member

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    This thing is simple, some people believe in hunting and some don't. The hunting industry has spent money to count how many animals are out there and how many we can hunt each year to maintain a healthy number of animals. And for the most part they have done well. It just comes down to the fact that some people don't think we should hunt and they think "nature" will control this. But the truth is man controls all of this and "nature" isn't much of an issue when it comes to wild animals. The people who don't like hunting are the ones who are always "blowing a fuse" when we talk wolves.

    And yes, we want more deer and elk each year so we can go hunt them with rifles. And thats ok.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  14. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Flat Tire,

    I agree with you in regard to the wolves killing 7200 elk a year. At that rate and an increase in the wolf population who has very few predators other than man. If the wolves also were not controlled and permitted to be hunted (as they had been protected up until recently I understand!) the elk would be severely depleted and in danger in just a few years. And Fat Tire is correct in one area and that is it brings in revenue for the states that have elk and other controlled seasons on game animals. Bottom line it is good for the economy and hunters in no way kill 7200 elk a year like has been happening since the re-introduction of the wolf. Coyotes here in our area will prey on deer, turkeys, house pets, young and new born calves. When the cattle are calffing you can bet the coyotes will be close at hand waiting for an opportunity. You can see them in the pastures and fields close to the cattle frequently.
    I killed 14 coyotes last year and one bobcat. That equates to more deer, turkeys and other animals to enjoy in our area. And as prone to survival as a coyote is this did not make a dent in the population. I not only hunt them but I have a safe area on my property for wildlife where during the year I put out corn, apples and other items for them. They seem to enjoy it most when the young are born each year and in the winter when food is scarce. I have even had red fox that eat corn there every year. I do not hunt within a mile and a half of the feed location because it is a safe zone and I can watch it from my front porch here in the woods.
    To each his own! Some people hunt and some people choose not to! I enjoy nature and have respect for the animals also! And like most here support the economy by purchasing licenses, ammunition, weapons, clothing, gear and hunting trips! It is a mega million dollar business that supports the area economy, the state's, as well as the industry producing the products. That equates to jobs for people who are employed by the companies! So yes I contribute and also hunt and fish! :)


    03
     
  15. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    Lets take humans out altogether. The coyote population would expand until they severely depleted the prey population. Many coyotes would then stave to death(a slow death). With the coyote population way low the prey animals would expand greatly. And the cycle would repeat. And that is better how? Humans have been trying to kill out coyotes for over 100 years yet they have expanded their range. In the bible it says God put animals here for man's use. So lets use 'em.
     
  16. Flat Tire

    Flat Tire New Member

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    Yeah but, and here is the problem. That equation is based on 300 wolves. We had over a thousand wolves in the state of Idaho. So that could be 1000 x 24 elk a year = 24,000 dead elk if the wolf goes protected by the courts. Those numbers just get too high to claim the wolves only kill the sick and weak.
     
  17. Flat Tire

    Flat Tire New Member

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    The only part of this issue that gets me upset is the Pro-Lifers that stick their nose in. How can anyone say it is bad to shoot a wolf when a wolf kills 24 elk a year. If I shoot a wolf I save the lives of 24 elk in the next year. You can't change what the wolf does to survive, he eats meat. You can't protect a know killer by saying you can't kill.
     
  18. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    I don't hunt anymore as it's just too damn expensive. I have nothing against hunting per se, I've skinned several bucks and plucked many greenheads.

    As I stated at the beginning, it was an honest question.

    As to pro lifers sticking their nose in, last I checked we live in a representative democracy, and all get a say in how our wild lands are handled.

    Anyway, the stuff said has gotten me to look up some numbers, and yes with the available habitat, hunting is needed. I just wish there was a better way. If i had to kill em, I wouldn't be happy about it
     
  19. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Have you ever seen a wolf or coyote kill on a larger animal? They are eaten alive. They are basically brought down by leg injuries and gutted while they are still breathing. A "conservationist" radical admitted publicly that the reintroduction of wolves was not to enhance wildlife but to destroy ranching. The group behind the reintroduction falsified the data to reduce the true facts of the impact the wolves would have. The wolves are getting fearless and humans have been attacked. Bears used to be the big concern of hikers but now wolves have been added. There is real concern about coyotes in urban areas because of the possibility of a small child being taken. I have seen a pack (5-6) of coyote's in my neighborhood while walking in the evening. I have seen several individuals walking down the street. I live in the middle of town.
    Dont believe all the propaganda put out by animal rights people. They lie a lot. Lumbering in Oregon was shut down over false information about the spotted owl provided as scientific studies by a coalition of tree huggers so they could have sole access to the forests. The forests burned along with the habitat and the owls are still around.
     
  20. FatTire

    FatTire New Member

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    Yes I have, as I said I have nothing against hunting, have done so myself, and likely will again.

    Sheesh what is with you guys? If someone asks a question you don't have to get wadded panties over it...

    It seems to me that wolf, bear, and coyote hunting is just another necessary evil in a deeply flawed system.

    If I thought you guys were bad people for doing it, I wouldn't have asked.