couple questions for the guru's

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by jjfuller1, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    building a lower for stag upper, 16 '' barrel. as far as the stock goes for the lower. i know it has to be carbine buffer and spring for the gas system. and i know NY the stock must be pinned. is it possible to order a stock and have it shipped? do i have to go to the LGS or gun show? i was hoping to get the magpul MOE.

    is it possible to run a carbine buffer n spring in a fullsize stock if the need arises?
     
  2. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    You cant use a carbine spring and buffer in a fullsize tube. The carbine buffer is shorter but the same weight as a rifle buffer. If you use a carbine buffer in a rifle tube its a good chance the bcg will lockup inside the buffer tube. Seen it done before. Buffer and springs arent expensive less than 20$ for both. So if you change to rifle length its not a huge deal

    Whether a business will ship to you in ny??? best to contact whom your buying from. Too many companies for me to lookup.

    The reason collapsables exist is for the military troops using body armor can use the same rifle and adjust it in and out when they arent using the armour. Keeps the same length of pull.

    Unless your going to use body armor on occasion pinning the stock in one place isnt a huge detriment to functionality other than the hit to your personal freedom.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  4. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    Like Jon said, if you use a carbine stock, use the carbine buffer. However, the barrel length has nothing to do mechanically with what type stock you use. Legal wise, is a question for someone other than me. You can use an A1 rifle stock with a 16" barrel. Just make sure you have the correct buffer for the size stock.
     
  5. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Not quite sure what a full size tube is but its best to keep rifle gas system components together.

    Carbine and mid lengthgas systrms use carbine components.

    Don't mix and match components bewteen the two systems.


    Most rifle system/length tubes are non adjustable. There are rife system that have provisions for adjustible stocks.
     
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    You can order any stock you want online and have it sent to NY. Just keep it legal.

    Buffers and spring come with the stock...not sure why you'd want to use a different one.
     
  7. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    Why? the length of buffer travel will be the same. I have done it before with no problems. You can swap a carbine lower with a 20-24 inch barrelled upper with no problem. You just need to have the correct buffer for the tube. If you have a carbine tube, the buffer needs to be the carbine buffer as it is shorter. The BCG needs to go the length of the mag well, no more, no less. The barrel length has no consideration in this matter.
     
  8. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    thanks all. i wasnt looking for functionally of the stock. i know it has to be pinned in NYS. i merely wanted a certain style. and was looking to see if i could order it. but the second part of my question was just incase i could not get that style. i wanted to know what the possibilies were. so it looks like i'll be buying my moe, pinning it when it arrives. and going on with my day... oh and i always change the buffers and springs. lol.. change it to these. heavybuffers.com
     
  9. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Its best to leave gas system components together with the gas system they were intended for. Swapping components changes timing. Remember gas pressures between different systems are really different (between rifle lengths systems and carbine/mid length systems). While most of the time swapping components will work, you may run into cycling issues.

    If you swap out the complete receiver extension/tube assembly, it will interchange. By complete I mean the extension/tube, spring, buffer, and end plate.

    Your rifle will not cycle correctly if you start mixing components of the reciever extension tube. IE putting a rifle buffer into a carbine tube, putting a carbine spring in a rifle tube, or putting a rifle spring into a carbine tube.

    The rifle springs are longer than a carbine. The rifle buffer is longer than a carbine. The rifle buffer is heavier than a carbine. The spring rates are different between a standard rifle and carbine spring. Rifle tubes are longer than carbine.

    So, as I said, its best to keep the components with the gas system they were designed for. It is possible to switch complete extension/tube assemblies, but it will change your timing. If you want to start playing with your timing, I would first start out with the original, test it make sure it works in all situations, then start swapping out components (spring rates and buffer weights). The worst thing you can do is start swapping out components before even getting your rifle up and running. Start with stock, standard components as a base, then change later.
     
  10. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    To clarify, don't mix and match components of the receiver extension/tubes. Use Rifle springs and buffers in rifle tubes. Use carbine spring and buffers in carbine tube.
     
  11. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    I think at least we are all agreed on one aspect: keep the buffer/tube/spring assembly together (don't put rifle buffer or spring in carbine tube or vice versa).
    I still can't see any timing issues, as the actual travel (the distance from the plastic end of the buffer to the end of the tube) is identical between milspec rifle and carbines. I can't say what non milspec is. The spring tensile strength between manufacturers may be different, but if the firearm is put together right, and there are no defective parts, the shooter shouldn't notice a difference. That being said, there is crap for parts out there, so there is a reason for concern in that area. I have been putting AR's together for a few years, so I would feel comfortable in putting a carbine buttstock assembly on a 20-24 inch rifle, or an A2 buttstock assembly on a 16 inch carbine. Would I trust it if some joe off the street put it together- Hell no.
     
  12. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    I run a 16" carbine length gas upper with both an A2 and ACE skeleton stock, rifle length tube, spring and buffer. Never had an issue...recoil is harsher but function is fine.

    I do see, however, where a carbine spring in the rifle length tube could "over travel" the bolt and slam the gas key into the receiver.
     
  13. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    Holey cow batman!! I don't wanna be around for that :eek:
    Seriously, even though it is a bad idea to mismatch the buffer and tube like that, the worst I see happening is the BCG getting stuck in between the buffer tube and receiver. But I have yet to see anyone say it was a good idea to mismatch the buffer/tube/spring assembly. I think this thread has gone way off course, and I am to blame. I apologize to the OP for this.
     
  14. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    It would be a hit to small statured shooters like my kids... Thank god the AWB expired in 04 and WA State never adopted it's own version. Going to the adjustable stock made it much safer for my "then" 12 YO son and 9 YO daughter to handle my AR.

    Tack
     
  15. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    For those in the Ban states, a shorty buttstock is an option. It has the same buttstock length as a completely collapsed carbine. Just no tacticool look. Feels a lot more solid to me.
     
  16. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Ace also makes a short entry length lightweight Tube and stock. I'd imagine it'd be an interesting choice to consider for you Tackleberry.