Could I have shot a kid?

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by MountaineerGlocker, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. MountaineerGlocker

    MountaineerGlocker New Member

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    As a few of you know, my wife and I just welcomed our son into the world a couple weeks ago. And taking care of a newborn is a lot of work. So today, my wife tells me she has to get out of the house and enjoy the outside. I pack up my little family (we also have a 6 year old daughter) and hit the interstate heading north. Two hours later we end up at one of the Corp of Engineers lakes that is in our state. My daughter and I explored the base of the dam, checked out a few fishing spots and played at the playground for an hour. Before leaving, my daughter asked me if I would take her to the public swimming area on the lake, that she spied earlier. No one was there when I drove by it the first time, so it sounded like a great idea. When we showed up this time there was about 12 to 15 people swimming. My wife decided that while we played in the water she was going to feed our son. So my daughter and I head down the steps to get in the water. Walking down the steps, I notice there was an older gentleman sitting at the bottom of the steps and two groups of swimmers. A group of older women with a young child and they are passing a beach ball back and forth...and a group of 5 kids (3 boys age 13-16, 1 girl age 11 or 12, and a young boy probably around 9 years old) swimming at the other end of the marked off area. My daughter gets in and starts playing around and splashing, picking up rocks and sticks and throwing them, having a great time. I kick my sandals off and wade in about knee deep. After a few minutes of being there, the group of kids across from us start cussing loudly. The first F-bomb I let slide, on the second one I glared their direction and looked over at the older women who were near them...they just looked at me like they couldn't believe their ears. When the third F-bomb came out, I yelled "HEY!!...I have a 6 year old over here, please watch the language". They all looked at me like I was nuts and got quiet. A few minutes later they started cussing again, but saying it really fast, in a mocking manner...then one got brave and yelled it out loud. I then asked them if their parents were around and if they knew they talked like that in public. Before they could answer, the older gentlemen at the bottom of the steps spoke up and said "You've been ASKED to watch your language, and now I'm TELLING you to watch it"...Things calmed down there for a few more minutes, and of course they started cussing again. At that point I had had enough, I tell my daughter to come on its time to go. She was upset, and didn't want to leave, but I was not going to stay there with that kind of language popping off every 10 seconds for my daughter to hear. As I'm drying my daughter and getting our things together. The older gentleman at the steps says "let the little girl play, I'm going to take care of this right now. I'm calling the police on those little brats", he then gets up and walks up the steps to his truck. I continue drying my daughter off, knowing without a doubt the cops could care less about some potty mouth kids at the local swimming hole. As I'm about to start up the steps the gentleman returns with a woman, obviously their mother. He starts telling her what transpired, and she seems genuinely upset. She's standing at the top of the concrete steps about 20 feet from myself at the bottom of the steps. She starts yelling for them to come on, that they are leaving and they know better than to talk like that. The kids are not happy, they start blaming each other. First the 9 year old gets out, walks past me and heads up the stairs, then the young girl gets out and follows him up the stairs. The other three teenage boys (typical teenage punks by the way...wanna b gangsta type) stay in the water and look quite pissed at the situation. The youngest one, which I think was around 13 or 14 comes out first. He cusses me the whole way up the stairs. About half way up he turns like he's going to come at me. I tuck my daughter who is clung to my left leg behind me and leaned toward him. He realized quickly that I was not going to be intimidated so easily and moved on up the steps. The other two, which I'm guessing were 15 and 16, came out of the water together. They both moved toward me in a threatening manner as they reached the bottom of the steps, cussing me the whole way. Once again, I squared my shoulders to both of them and said without saying, "come get some!"...they both slowly moved their way up the steps. This whole time the mother is at the top of the steps yelling for them to stop cussing me and acting like they're going to do something. It's like she didn't even exist to them. They didn't hear a word she was saying. I honestly believe the only thing that kept them moving up the steps was the 6' 250lb. pissed off hillbilly at the bottom of the steps. I never said a word, I just kept my daughter behind me and never took my eyes off of them. Once at the top, the mother was literally beating them to the car...she would punch them in the chest and arms to drive them back to the car, but once she got two of them back the third one would come back to the top of the steps and start cussing me again. It was quite comical at that point, and I couldn't help myself so I laughed out loud, as did a few others standing near. The boys didn't like that too much. The 13 or 14 year old appeared at the top of the steps this time with a knife in his hands. About a 4" or 5" serrated blade in his right hand. He said "You think your tough old man, I'll come down there and cut you"......This my friends...was the game changer..... His mother was busy with the other two and didn't see any of this going down. So I said to the kid, as my left arm grabbed my daughter and pulled her behind me and close to my body..."If you come down here with that knife, kid...it's going to be the worst mistake of your life"...he obviously thought I was bluffing, because he started down the steps like a madman. Now, at this moment my mind is without exaggeration, working a million miles an hour. Do I throw my 6 year old who cannot swim yet in 4 foot of water to my left and hope she doesn't drown so I can make this punk kid eat this knife? Do I keep my daughter behind me and do my best to disarm him, not knowing what could happen with a knife so close to my beautiful princess? Do I jump in the water with my daughter and hope he don't jump on top of us with the knife?.....What happened next though, felt so natural that it happened without me even thinking it. My right hand moved around my waist to my 4:30 position and the palm of my hand landed perfectly on the handle of my Glock 27 .40cal, w/full mag of Speer Gold Dots, tucked in my IWB Galco King Tuk.....I knew without a shadow of a doubt what my next move was going to be. And a split second before I made that move, his mother came out of no where and threw an open handed left hook with all her might to his left cheek, it rocked his world....she almost brought him off his feet. He stopped dead in his tracks, he then started moving backwards with a look on his face like he might cry. After a few more cussing outbursts from the other two...She finally got a hold of them and got them in the car and left......Now, I've been replaying this in my mind over and over all night. I keep asking myself...would I have really shot that kid? It makes me sick to my stomach to think of such a thing. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has thought about a scenario, in which we would have to use our weapons for self-defense. In my scenario, the bad guy is always played by the stereo typical bad guy you would see in the movies...a bad guy at first sight, and he's always carrying a crowbar too!?!? (I have no clue, don't ask). Not some misguided youth who hasn't even started his life yet. Its very unsettling to think that I came close to having to make that decision today. If I didn't have my daughter with me today, the decision would of been easy...I would of never thought about pulling my weapon...and that boy would of been taught a very hard lesson today, by my own hands. But, having my little girl there, changed EVERYTHING!! Not knowing what I would of done today (shoot/not shoot) if he made it down the steps is what's bothering me the most. I honestly don't think I could ever recover from killing a kid, but at the same time, I would kill anyone trying to harm my wife or kids. So, I put it to you fine people. What would you have done? I hope some of you don't judge me too harshly for not knowing instantly whether or not I would of fired on him...I can tell you this though...If his mother wouldn't of made it to him in time and he came down those steps on me and my daughter...He was going to meet Black Betty face to face for sure...I do know that much. Hopefully that would of been enough to stop him.
     
  2. lbwar15

    lbwar15 New Member

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    Your daughter comes before any other kid. That kid was old enuf to know what he was doing. If you did have to draw your glock the sight of it alone should have stopped him. If not I would fire a warning shot and yell at him to stop. If he continued down the steps well you got to do what you got to do. There is no way you would ever get over killing a kid. But you would hate your self more if you let your daughter get hurt.
    I thank you handled the situation very well.
     

  3. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    Sorry to hear your princess didn't really enjoy the day. But she has a good dad who protects her.
    If i were you, i'd always try to protect my precious one like u did. Probably i would give the boy a verbal warning and show him my gun at the same time. At least i tried to warn. The rest.. you all know how it will be.
     
  4. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    Your, and your daughter's safety comes first. If someone threatens that safety (whether they be 10, 14, 30, or 100 years old), you have to neutralize that threat. Had you actually drawn your gun, he would have probably crapped himself, and took off running. If not, that would have been his decision, and you should not feel guilty about what you would of HAD to do.

    You did nothing wrong. You were protecting your daughter.

    and to answer your question, yes. I would have drawn too, and if he didn't turn and run, he would be having a long talk with God.
     
  5. MountaineerGlocker

    MountaineerGlocker New Member

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    I really appreciate the comments. After getting it out of my system and writing it all down, I know now what I would have done. I agree with all three of you. I would of fired a warning shot, because the Lord knows I wouldn't of wanted to shoot him. If he continued towards my daughter and I, there would of been no hesitation...I would of put him down! In my heart of hearts I knew that was what I would of done...it just feels good to see that someone else agrees with me.
     
  6. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    You did good. I'd done the same.
     
  7. dks7895

    dks7895 New Member

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    You asked for opinions....so here is mine. This is why I choose not to carry. It is too much responsibility and if you pull it out...you better be prepared to use it with deadly force. Firing a warning shot is the worst idea. You can get yourself in a lot of trouble for that. Even pulling or flashing your gun will get you in a heap of trouble. I have 3 daughters so I get the parenting thing. I would have taken my child to the opposite end of the swim area and enjoyed the water. You could either ignore the cussing and hope your daughter does as well. Or you take the opportunity to explain to your daughter how not to behave. You had no right to disipline those other kids and your attempt only made it worse. As a last resort, you could have left and gone to the playground. Obviously the kid was stopped by a mother's back hand....so I think a .40S&W is a little overkill. I think your daughter would suffer much more seeing her father kill a boy in cold blood compared to hearing a few f bombs. I am sure that many will disagree with me....and that's fine. You asked for opinions, and this is mine.
     
  8. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Agreed, you did good.

    And remember just because you draw, doesn't mean you have to fire.

    99.999% of the time, seeing it is enough.
     
  9. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You would have been legal in shooting him, but he would have ruined his underwear and ran before you had the chance. I would have gotten the license no. of the car and reported the situation to the police, if for any reason you feared for you and your daughters life and was prepared to draw. The brat has no use for a weapon of any sort, and obviously needs to realize actions of this sort don't belong in a civilized society.

    It's unfortunate that so many of todays youth dont even know what respect is, let alone use it. I cussed when I was that age, but never around adults or younger kids. I sure as hell would have shut up if an adult told me to. What worries me is each generation gets worse.
     
  10. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    Kill a boy in cold blood.

    What a joke. A 14 year old with a knife can kill you.
    Ya sound like a Travin Martin sympathizer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  11. dks7895

    dks7895 New Member

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    I agree that a 14 year old with a knife can kill you. I never said that he could not. I was referring to how his 6 year old daughter would see it. Being witness to an event like that could scar her for life. Calling me a joke and a Travin Martin sympathizer is just as juvenile as those punk kids cussing in public. :p

    The point I was originally trying to make was this sounds like a situation that could have been avoided. Punk kids exist everywhere, and the world is filled with profanity. I would have handled it differently, that's all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  12. Mosin

    Mosin Well-Known Member

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    The world would've been a better place if you shot him. Hopefully he runs into someone not as rational minded as you. Good restraint on your part.
     
  13. tellmaster207

    tellmaster207 New Member

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    Just another case of the devolution of society.

    I think you showed a lot of self restraint, I've been thinking about @ what time I would have drawn my Glock. It would have been when I saw the knife.
    If someone comes running @ you from 30' you will have a hard time getting your pistol out in that amount of time. When I carry I don't usually chamber a round. Like you, I think about the stereo type BG. I figured if my life is ever put in danger it would happen at a store or fast food restaurant.
    Weird really if you think about it.
    1) I probably wouldn't have been carrying at the beach in the first place.
    2) if I would have been carrying I would have drawn sooner.
    3) if I was carrying, I'd still have to chamber a round.

    Were dud all this happen? Near a city? Urban or Rural?
    defiantly gives you some things to think about.
     
  14. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When drawing in a cc situation, time is of the essence. Having to chamber a round in a semi auto after drawing could easily make the difference if you win or lose. Your choice, I know.
     
  15. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    :confused:If they are 30 feet away, I could have my 19 out and rounds on target before they got to me. 30 feet is a good piece.
     
  16. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    A 14 yo "Kid" with a knife is a threat. IMHO, if that threat is directed at you, all of the subtle nuances that people argue over fall by the wayside. Neutralize the threat or die.
    FWIW, warning shoots seem to cause more problems than they solve.

    What would scar her more, her father dealing with an armed punk or watching her father get stabbed? If someone's gotta lose, it might as well be the punk.
    I think the baddest person there was the punk's mom. :)
     
  17. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    I almost had to shoot a 14 year old boy with a knife one time. I was dispatched to a juvenile assault on a parent, when i arrived the mother was outside and her 14 year old son was chasing her in the front yard with a butcher knife. I ordered the boy to drop the knife and he just turned around facing me staring at me, he was about 25ft away from me. I drew my sidearm and trained my sights center mass, i ordered the boy to drop the knife but instead he started slowly walking towards me gripping the knife. I ordered the boy one last time to stop or i was going to shoot him, right when i was squeezing the trigger he stopped and dropped the knife. There was no thought in my mind that he was just a boy,he was only seen as an armed threat. He was lucky for sure
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  18. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    OP, it sounds to me you acted extremely well. and by all means if it was me and this kids mom had not intervened, that punk would not be having a good day. also, DO NOT ever fire a warning shot. if you fire a warning shot it means you have time to run or escape the situation, and often leads to charges against you. if he had continued to aproach you or charge you and you drew your sidearm. it should IMMEDIATELY be centered on his chest cavity.
    the only thing i would say is to verbally tell the kid before you draw that you will defend yourself if he doesnt stop.
    and i disaggree that they should of ignored the problem. especially as he was not the only person noticing and speaking to the kids about there behavior. there behavior is a direct reflection upon the parent(S) and those kids should have known better. its sad that it takes the parents of other kids to have to even mention more than a reminder to kids. especially kids of those ages that should know how to act politely in public.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  19. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    I like this and will add you likely would have been saving someone's life down the line. These little sh!ts are just gonna end up in the system and costing us all money in the future.
     
  20. lbwar15

    lbwar15 New Member

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    That's a negative right there. If you
    Read it he said he got his daughter out and started to dry her off. So he attempted to leave and avoid the situation escalating.

    I can also say I have personally drawn my weapon and aimed it at a man in Walmart parking lot. And I did tell the police I drew and aimed my gun. Nothing happened they took my gun Ltc and drivers license. Ran my info gave me my stuff back made a report and told me to have a nice day.