Cops: Would you take guns away?

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by bkt, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    It's great to hear some reactions by cops in this. These guys are exactly the sort I hope make up 99.999% of the police force and military.

    Controversy: Would You Take Away Guns From Law-Abiding Citizens?
    06/28/2012

    “Would You Take Away Guns From Law-Abiding Citizens?” Question Posed by Publisher Causes Stir In American COP

    San Diego, Calif. — “Would you personally, go out and confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens — even if it goes against your personal opinion regarding the constitutional rights of citizens — and do it on the order of an administrative leader of your agency?”

    Appearing in “Will You Do It?” of the July issue of American COP, this contentious question from publisher Roy Huntington is causing quite a stir, and has generated a flurry of comments and emails from police officers at every level.

    In response to this query posed by Huntington, Chief D. Crowley of the Winona (Mo.) Police Department wrote, “I will not follow nor issue an order that is unconstitutional, and until the Constitution is amended — and I hope that day never comes — I will continue to protect the gun rights of the citizens I serve.”

    Sgt. James B. Wielgus of East Stroudsburg, Pa., answered, “We know there are lawful orders, and there are unlawful orders. I would feel no duty to obey what I would know to my core was an unlawful order. I don’t care if they discipline me or fire me; I have every faith I would eventually prevail in court.”

    Huntington discussed his reasoning for sparking this compelling discussion, “Many of today’s younger officers did not grow up around firearms. Indeed, in my own experience as an academy instructor over 12 years ago, even then, often fifty percent or more of the academy trainees had never fired a gun prior to joining the police department. Which begs the question: ‘Does not growing up in a gun culture influence their opinion on ownership of firearms by the general public?’ I asked that very question, and found an overwhelming response indicating regardless of their past, the vast majority of today’s officers support private ownership of firearms, and would not participate in any confiscation program.”

    Visit www.americancopmagazine.com/will-you-do-it/ to comment on this story.

    Here is the article as it appears in the American COP July issue:

    I like to think my “real” job is as the editor of our sister publication, American Handgunner magazine. A publisher wears many hats, but what I really like to do is write, edit and interact with readers. What I’ve never forgotten is we, you and I, are the same — I just happen to have this job. I spent a long time as a cop in San Diego, and an even longer lifetime so far as a shooter and gun owner. I (and parent company FMG) feel strongly about the right of law-abiding Americans to own firearms, for any reason they like; from hunting, plinking, collecting, reloading, you-name-it. But most assuredly, we believe Americans have the right to own firearms for personal protection. This brings me to a sore subject for many Handgunner readers.

    I get regular reader mail asking essentially the same question: “Roy, as a former cop, do you think today’s younger cops would actually try to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, if they were told to do so by their leaders?” Keep in mind, real people and regular people just like us — not crazies — seriously worry about this.

    Since I’ve sort of “crossedover” both sides of the fence being both a law enforcer and law-abiding citizen gun owner, I can see what they’re talking about. I’ve known anti-gun cops, who seriously said things like, “They have no right to own a gun, it’s my job to protect them. If they have guns, it’s just a danger to me!” You might know someone like that too. And certainly, there are politicians out there who think the same way; and those very politicians often appoint police chiefs. Since sheriffs are elected, they can serve as a bit of a buffer on this topic. They more readily serve their voting constituent than the politically appointed chief does.

    So, I’ll be blunt and ask you: Would you personally, go out and confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens — even if it goes against your personal opinion regarding the constitutional rights of citizens — and do it on the order of an administrative leader of your agency? Would you put your foot down and say, “No, that’s not legal, it’s not right, and I won’t do it” — all the while risking being disciplined or fired? Or would you simply do your duty, as it were? “I was only following orders!” And, if you don’t think it can happen, just look at New Orleans after the hurricane, when the city cops did that very thing. They also lost a lawsuit brought by the NRA in the aftermath. It was found the city of New Orleans did not have the right to confiscate firearms in the “interest of public safety.”

    I was asked to write about this a long while ago, back when I was still a cop. I wrote the article and stated: I would not do it and, yes, I’d risk the consequences. I signed my name to the article, and my agency knew it. I also said I didn’t feel the vast majority of my LE peers would participate if they felt they were given an unlawful order to confiscate guns. But today? I honestly don’t know what would happen. What’s your opinion? You tell me.

    Reach me through the editor@americancopmagazine.com and I anxiously await your mail.
     
  2. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    If I was an officer of the law and required to do such a thing, I would confiscate only what I saw.:rolleyes:. I would knock on the door without ever looking into the house. Never saw any, so they must be clean.

    I don't think that the average officer would, but I know of a few that would Like to on any given day.
     

  3. jon1992d

    jon1992d New Member

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    Im in college to become a cop at the moment but if I was told to confiscate law abiding citizens legal guns then I would have a pretty hard time paying back my college fees without a job.
     
  4. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    To confiscate firearms in america is a suicide mission. I spent 10 years as a LEO,if i had ever gotten an order to go from door to door confiscating firearms i would have refused. A LEOs job is dangerous enough as it is, add firearms confiscation into the equazion.

    That can of worms that i wouldnt want to open
     
  5. Car54

    Car54 New Member

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    The key words to this is "lawful order". As department policies dictate, a police officer must obey a lawful order. Confiscation of weapons without warrant is unconstitutional, therefore not a lawful order and must be ignored.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    I hung up my badge before many of the current LEOs were born. MY answer would have been a flat NO. I feel that MOST LEOs would have the same answer- BUT- I do believe the answer will be geographically driven.

    Bedford Virginia, Dawsonville GA, Grand Junction CO, Odgen UT, Seguin Tx, Buffalo WY- be sure to let me know how that works out for ya, because I don't think you would have much success.

    Baltimore, Philadelphia, San Franciso, the answer likely to be quite different- and unappealing.
     
  7. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    I agree! This order would be 100% unconstitutional. So it from the start is an unlawful order! I was an LE for close to 30 years now retired from LE. I would absolutely see NOTHING! And confiscate NOTHING! In fact I would take what ever action necessary to protect the citizens and our Second Amendment Rights. Of course with the present administration as of late it would not surprise me if duffus would pass an "executive order" or declare a state of martial law against the citizens of the United States without any confidence with the proper procedure! But as one has already commented, to confiscate the weapons of the American Citizens and violate the Constitution of the United States would be "Suicide" and D Well should be. They certainly would be in serious problems in Indiana with that new law about unlawful acts by officials. Keeping in mind that law has nothing to do with a person who has or is in the process of violating criminal laws.
    Ordering the confiscation of honest American Citizens weapons is a Constitutional violation! And what ever they would suffer attempting to do so would be fair game!:)
    Do not forget to vote in November! Our Nation as we know it depends on you!

    God Bless America

    03
     
  8. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    The town i live in was named after Bedford, VA. I'm sure the response would be very similar also.
     
  9. Cattledog

    Cattledog New Member

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    The LEO's in new orleans didn't have a problem violating the constitution during katrina. The problem is indeed the "lawful order" Without looking I guarantee there are several more states that allow the confiscation of firearms during an emergency.

    It has to go beyond the hopeful discretion of honorable LEO's. A handful of states (including Oregon yay!) did amend their constitutions to specifically ban the practice of firearm confiscation during times of emergency. Unfortunately, it took the events of the katrina gun grab to prompt action. I would urge everyone to look into so-called "emergency powers" in their state and take action.
     
  10. wjnfirearms

    wjnfirearms New Member

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    This question is an easy one for me.

    No!!!!!
     
  11. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine is a LEO in Grand Junction CO. I asked him a while ago what he would do. His reply was "I dont like my job that much." And I know that he loves his job.
     
  12. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    Im pretty sure there was a reason you listed these cities. Time for a history lesson from someone who has forgotten more than I will ever learn.
     
  13. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    Work at a prison. Become a military officer. I would never follow it.


    An even tougher question: If the 2nd Amendment was legally changed through the amendment process to ban all firearms, would you confiscate them?
     
  14. jon1992d

    jon1992d New Member

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    Ya those are my back ups and if the 2nd is changed to not allow firearms I wouldnt want to be a police officer trying to take all ya'lls guns lol
     
  15. michigan0626

    michigan0626 New Member

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    If it was changed I still would not confiscate guns. You have a natural right to self defense. Not just a Constitutional one. Thats my view anyway.
     
  16. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    We saw the actual result to this question in New Orleans.

    Moot question
     
  17. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    There is no way in hell I would obey such an unlawful order.

    WTS, The LE workforce is changing. Many newer officers fired a handgun for the first time in the Academy. Several struggle with shotgun qualifications because they do not have good gun handling experience. Gone are the days of "gun guys" (and gals) dominating the ranks. I fear when the old guard (like me) retire, there is a better than even chance the LEOs will simply obey orders (lawful or otherwise) and walk into a hail of bullets.
     
  18. jon1992d

    jon1992d New Member

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    Its kinda ironic that the guys you trained how to use firearms are gonna be the ones that would take yours. But just like the old martial arts movies the masters never teach the students all there secrets so the old dogs are gonna have the upper hand.
     
  19. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    We had a standoff in a local village, man holed up in his garage, gun on his lap sitting in a chair. Hes an Iraq Vet, had a domestic dispute, wife left called the cops and the standoff began, no violence was ever reported by the wife, loud arguing only. Just after sunset a Sheriff, (Also an Iraq Vet) stormed his position with a blinding flashlight and firing plastic bullets at the guy. He returned fire with lead, one shot, right in the throat, officer died in a few minutes. The Guy was taken without incident and is now serving a life sentence for murdering a cop.

    Most around here support our Police departments 100% but many of us feel that the frontal assault was completely unnecessary, the sheriffs department said they did it because they were afraid the guy was suicidal, they tried to taze him then shot bullets at him while blinding him with a light. The guy never lifted his weapon until they shot at him.

    Now both are dead, one literally, the other might just as well be.
     
  20. Georgiahunter

    Georgiahunter New Member

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    I think it's a shame that the officer got shot and I think the idiot who sent him in deserved to get it, not the officer. From what you say, they should've solved it without violence, but if they had to go in they should've sent more than one guy and gave them real bullets! This case is what I'm afraid of, officers being told lies, or just blindly following orders, and getting shot in the process. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone trying to take my guns, but it's a shame to have to do it.