Convince a .45 lover to convert

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by Soliferrum, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

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    ...alright so i dont believe in love at first site. its the same crap as fate. but now i believe i may have to give it a second thought. behold the item in question.
    CZ_75SP_01_Phantom2a.jpg

    but only problem is it only comes in 9mm.

    the 9mm is complete s**t. its is a combat round, not a defensive round. It is used to fight your way to a rifle not used to stop a 300 lbs garbage truck hopped up on meth with hungry eyes for you. Dont give me "well shot placement yadda yadda". any jack ass knows how to aim for head or chest, my problem is over pen. .45 is slow and heavy, a 9mm is like a a needle with JATO's on it. Id be afraid to carry such a round knowing i have to think of whats behind the target cause if i dont, its going to keep going beyond what it really needs to.

    does anyone at all have some knowledge on proper 9mm loads that can stop a mac truck of a bad guy without going through a car, wall, windows, the back door, and beyond? i mean, i even refused to go to the pistol range while i was in because i hated the M9 that much. but now, just cause i want it so bad im looking for help to be convinced that this would be a good idea.

    seriously, its like sacrilege for me. its like telling my dad that i just proposed to my girlfriend. the hardcore liberal devoted socialist girlfriend.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The grip of the CZ-75 series of pistols is one of the most natural I have ever felt. Even better than the High Power.

    As far as the 9mm being complete s**t? If you live in a communist state like New Jersey, then OK. You are not allowed to carry hollow point ammo and FMJ's in any handgun caliber are less than ideal. The 9mm has a long history of use in defensive situations. 20-30 years ago there were numerous stories of dismal failures, true. The ammo makers have spent many millions of dollars on research to improve the performance. Modern 9mm HP ammo such as the Ranger SXT +P+, the Speer Gold Dot, the Federal Hydra-shok and several others are superb man stoppers. I carry a 10mm, but would have no problem with a good 9mm loaded with Gold Dot 124 +P's. I have seen the actual results. Stops are quick and bullets PERFORM!

    Don't judge the caliber on history. Modern 9mm ammo is very much up to the task.
     

  3. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    The pros and cons of 9pm as a defensive round have been beaten to death. Balistic gelatin tells one story, ER Docs and Medical Examiners tell another. I'm not going to rehash the argument beyond the obvious fact the NO pistol round approaches the 2200 FPS velocity required for immediate incapacitation of a threat. Stopping the BG with a pistol, short of a hit to central nervous system is about 1 thing. Blood loss. Bigger bullets make bigger holes and tend to smash through obstacles like the sternum and ribs better than smaller rounds. That said, many holes bleed more than 1 or two and most of us can deliver faster hits with a 9 than we can with a .45

    I used to share your .45 only prejudice but the reality of effective CCW got the better of me. I now own two 9's, a Kahr PM 9 for office carry and a CZ 75B SS.

    This is the all steel predecessor to the gun you looking at and IMHO is superior to the Browning Hi Power in every way. "Don't shoot me Cane".

    You will not be dissapointed with a CZ purchase. As to the caliber question, you'll have to convince yourself because your confidence is really the only thing that will matter when it's your life on the line.

    Tack
     
  4. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Why "convert"?
    Just have both :confused:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

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    no Hoss, you missunderstand my lineage. My father was an 0311 from 79 to 85. to own 2 types of weapons I.E. a 9mm as a sidearm or an AR as an MBR is, like i said, sacrilegious to my family. "Boy, know this and know it well. Nothing-can stop an AK and never start a gunfight with a caliber lower than a .4" so for years upon years i can own any caliber of .40 or .45 i care too. But to carry a 9 is to spit in the face of god. we-uh, we take our guns way to seriously.

    I know (read) of the gold-dot EFMJ's that supposedly expand up to a .7 but i dont know exactly how repeatable they are. of course, what 17 rnds?, against my 1911's 10rnds is way better in the long run. but compared up against the history of the .45 it dosent have the best track record. its been proven for over 100 years now that .45's stop charging enemy troops in their tracks and its hard for me to leave that security blanket. Knowing the round i carry has stopped insane germans from getting to close makes me feel better than when the stories from my fellow marines telling me their combat stories with the M9 "man i had to reload just to put enough rounds into his ass to stop running, let alone kill'em.". then again were not aloud to carry hollow point anything. stupid geneva convention, wont let nobody have fun.
     
  6. Paladin201

    Paladin201 New Member

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    Dare I use the cartoon twice in one day? Search the forum and you will find the 9mm vs 45 argument has been debated ad nauseum. Believers in both sides of the arguments have provided reams of indisputable proof that they are right and the other side is full of crap. Replace 9mm/45 with 380/9mm and you'll see the same arguments all over again. It will never end.
     

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  7. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    I enjoy .45 acp as much as the next guy. However I find 9 mm fine as well. FWIW, if you can only find the CZ you like in 9 mm, I don't think the world will end.
    Have you checked out the the CZ-97B? Get that CZ goodness in the caliber you love. I almost bought one, but went with a Witness Match in .45 (very similar in many ways).
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  8. gollygee

    gollygee New Member

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    You ask for assistance, but in the same breath you bash a lot of folks' favorite round???;) :)

    I carry a 1911 with 7+1 .45 ACP or sometimes carry a Bersa 9mm with 17+1 & don't feel inadequate either way.
     
  9. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

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    im not really going for "F**K your 9mm!!!" this is more of a "oh god help me!" cry. as i have seen bitching back and forth about the 9mm and .45 i dont care which is better to who the hell ever. id much rather be very appreciative if people could help me get over my anxiety of stepping down in caliber by debating my issues rather than read up on douches going back and forth over stuff like "in 198-blah blah, the military switched to the 9mm round for its excellence in-" don't care.

    i find it better if people would share their time and tell me "this 9mm round is muy bueno-never had it fail/ non-expand" or "dude one time, shot a charging 300lbs boar with a such and such, dead as a doornail."

    man that would make me feel better. and i dont mean to bash, its more like "aww he dont know cause of his upbringing"
     
  10. gollygee

    gollygee New Member

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    Then I'd suggest you phrase your question a little better. Might get a better answer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  11. USMC-03

    USMC-03 New Member

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    Funny...I only had to use my M9 once in my 3 tours. You could ask the guy it was used on how he feels about the 9mm...but he must of thought I had a .45 because he went down fast and never gave me his input on the caliber debate.
     
  12. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Dude just stick to what you know. Sounds like you know .45.
     
  13. Paladin201

    Paladin201 New Member

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    I hear ya. But here's the problem. I have 9mm's. I don't even own a 45. I'm perfectly comfortable with it. But I can sit here and give you 100 reasons why 9mm's will get the job done. And I can provide you endless testimonies by "experts", and test data to that fact. But as soon as I do, someone else will come along with a 100 reasons why 9mm's won't cut it. With an equal number of expert testimonials and test data to prove their position. I wish I had a $10 bill for every time I've seen it hashed out on forums and blogs.

    So go with your gut. If using a 9mm causes you heartburn, then don't. Stick with what you are comfortable with. Do what's right for you, not what someone else talks you into.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  14. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

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    once again paladin you are correct. but again im specifically throwing out the "expert testimonials" and looking for that personal story some might have. im not looking to re-enforce my bias, like i said im trying to get over my idiosyncrasies. I know and i apologize if it looks like im arguing but its the fleeting mayday calls of a sinking ship so to speek.

    dude i wouldnt know im not ground side, but we all meet at the same damn bar and i hear them all going back and forth. not backing him up just he said she said.
     
  15. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    K.I.S.S.

    Firearms shoot bullets

    Bullets kill people

    Carry what you want

    Debate over
     
  16. Cattledog

    Cattledog New Member

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    Just get some nice hollow point defense rounds if your worried about a 9mm going on through the target. A spread 9mm defense round has a larger diameter than a .45 fmj. 9mm's are cheaper to shoot so you get more trigger time (unless money is no object) and practice makes any firearm more deadly. You wanted convincing to use a 9mm. Thats my two cents.
     
  17. Soliferrum

    Soliferrum New Member

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    thank you cattledog. ive also been tossing around the fact that i should own one for the simple reason there are more 9mm rounds than .45 for a shtf plan.
     
  18. pfev1980

    pfev1980 New Member

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    When I started piling up guns, the 9mm was the last I added to my pistol collection. Not because it's a crap round, but because I knew I would shoot it the most as the rounds are noticeably cheaper. I wanted to get some time in with my .40 and .45 before my 9mm started eating it up.

    That being said, I keep my pistols in a shelved box with the .40 and the .45 at the front loaded. My 9 is behind them, so for a quick oh crap moment, I can answer the door with some authority. If its more extended, my wife has easy access to the 9. I'm with the poster above who said why change, just get both. It sounds like you have a .45 already, if so save up and get the 9 when you can. If not get the .45 when you can and then save for the 9.

    This isn't really a ballistics problem, a 9mm will kill a man no problem and there are stories of guys reloading 1911s to kill guys just like with the m9s and there are plenty of stories of guys falling over dead from one .22 round. It really is about shot placement in those cases. You worried about over penetration? Get a .410 and load it with bird shot.

    This is really a preference problem. You are going to make a compromise here. Either get the gun you want in the caliber you don't or wait till you find a gun in the caliber you do want.
     
  19. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Same ole story :rolleyes:

    And this is----Well, dont have the words :confused:

     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  20. primer

    primer New Member

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    Well said. I've never shot anybody with a bullet and never been in the military. I've been in debates like this and rarely does someone change their mind. I'll throw two more pennies in this ball of poop argument and say that in paintballing it is amazing that two skilled and seasoned adults can sometimes throw hundreds of rounds at each other and never get hit. I would rather hit bg with a 45 but magazine capacity has significant merit to justify a 9mm. I carry 5 shots of 38 + p as a ccw, because of reliability and simplicity.