Considering rifle marksmanship:

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Vincine, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    I read the ‘What rifle/caliber’ stickies (Thank you, Dillinger & opaww.) and the short list seems to be Rem’ 700, Win’ 70, Howa 1500, and Savage.

    The longest range near me is 300 yds. Google says the nearest 1k yd. range is 6 hours away in PA. That being the case, I’m not seeing any point in getting a rifle that can nail the ‘X’ at 800 - 1,000 yards if I wouldn’t even be able to practice at those ranges. So, considering that limitation, what’s a good common, readily available, domestic, off the shelf, industry standard, tool that will give me the biggest bang for the buck, either used or new? I’m a tall gal (6’ 2.5”) with a 15.5” pull. Are there any that come in an adjustable stock flavor?

    .308 seems to be the standard marksmanship caliber at sub 1k yards, but at only 200 - 300 yds. is wind drift even a factor? I’m not going to be shooting in a hurricane. Would I be better off with a lighter caliber until I can max out the capability of the rifle, if ever? I wouldn’t be reloading. Do they even make light weight match calibers?

    A police rather than a military rifle?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
  2. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    Wind is a factor at that yardage depending on if it's a full value (left to right) wind or a half value (angled). Check out this document to learn how to account for wind. http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/21.PDF
     

  3. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Bookmarked, thanks.

    >For example, here's the FULL VALUE 10 mph data for a specific round, the .308, 175-grain Match, with a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps:

    Distance in Yards & Full Value 10 MPH Drift in Inches
    100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
    1" 3" 7" 14" 22" 33" 47" 64" 84" 54"

    Firing that .308 round, even in a full-value, 30 mph wind requires just 3 inches of right or left compensation at 100 yards.<
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
  4. 762

    762 Member

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    if you're just punching paper at 100-300 yards, just get a .223 or a .243.
     
  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Thanks for the shout out, but I merely contribute here and people comment on it. ;)

    Uh. What? What were you saying, I got lost after that first part there... :cool:

    Yes. You need an adjustable stock, but the "factory" options are limited I am afraid.

    The .308 is an industry standard for police and "other" professions inside the magic 600 yard range. It's as "standard" as you can get in 168gr, off the shelf, ready to go ammo.

    Federal Gold Metal Match and Black Hills are about as uniform as you can get in factory ammo and both will shoot EXTREMELY well in the right stick. Neither is going to be drastically affected by wind, and it has the power to put down a lot of game (even "other" two legged game) inside of about 650.

    Here's the problem I see. You need AT LEAST a customized stock, and if you are going to go that far, you need a glass bed / pillar bed and a tuned trigger, since you are already in there working on the action.

    At that point you might want to consider pulling the barrel, truing up / blueprinting the action and perhaps even going for a heavy barrel, custom maker option.

    You see where I am going?

    It might be easier to "customize" a gun to your shooting skills and needs as opposed to buying off the shelf and trying to make the weapon "fit you".

    Hope this info helps!

    JD
     
  6. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know people that are shooting 223 on AR 15 target platforms at 1000 yds and are competitive. That said there are the 6mm and 6.5mm rounds. The AR 10 type rifles are available in several calibers including 308 and could be fitted with an adjustable stock. For an out of the box bolt action in 308, check out the Savage rifles. Especially the law enforcement series. The 223 and the 308 would probably be the cheapest for ammo for someone that does not hand load. Hornady brought out some steel cased target ammo that is considerably cheaper than brass cased.
     
  7. Hinermad

    Hinermad New Member

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    Vincine, if you're in New York State the assault weapon ban may restrict your use of a collapsible or adjustable stock.

    New York defines an assault weapon thus:

    If you stick with a bolt gun or a rifle with a fixed magazine this doesn't apply, but you should be aware as you make your choice.

    Dave
     
  8. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Look what I just found:

    The Howa/Axiom Heavy Barrel Varminter features a rugged lightweight synthetic construction and an instantly adjustable length-of-pull from 11.5 to 15.5 inches. It comes as standard with two recoil suppression devices for improved recoil reduction of up to 70%. It has a completely free-floated barrel that offers maximum accuracy. The model was designed mostly for varmint/predator hunting as well as bench rest shooting.

    But it's not domestic, I don't think.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    HOWA is made in Japan. Weatherby imports their action under the Vanguard line.

    If US made is a mandate, you are going to have to go 100% custom. Even companies like Remington are owned by a conglomerate with offices all over the world that share in the profits.

    You can always go with something by LaRue. Twice the price, but still US made parts and assembly.

    Hit me up if you have questions.

    JD
     
  10. fireguy

    fireguy New Member

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    Vincine,
    I have a .308 Axiom Howa. Great rifle. It shoots less than MOA even with me pulling the trigger. You won't go wrong with one of these.
     
  11. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    You could get a standard rifle and just add a recoil pad to increase the length of pull. It would also reduce felt recoil. Length of pull in a rifle is not as critical like it is for a shotgun. It does not sound like you will be shooting in competitions. At 300 yards wind is certainly a factor in all calibers. If all you will ever do is punch paper choose a light recoil round so you can have more enjoyment at the range.
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Howa is also the company that created the arisaka famed for its insane reciever strength.
     
  13. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    >(i) a folding or telescoping stock;<

    Just wondering; Is a stock with an adjustable pull considered the same as a telescoping stock?
     
  14. Hinermad

    Hinermad New Member

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    I'm not sure. If it can be adjusted without tools it might be. If it takes a wrench or a screwdriver you're probably okay.

    A common trick for people who build M4-like carbines is to adjust the stock to they length they want and then pin and epoxy it in place so it remains fixed.

    Dave
     
  15. Jeff56

    Jeff56 New Member

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    I'm 6'1" and I don't have any problems shooting my Savage 12 LRPV which is a .223 rifle. Like others have said, there are add on recoil pads that effectively increase the LOP of any stock. They are custom built for many rifles. You wouldn't really need something to take the recoil of a .223 or a .243 but the length could help you. Personally I don't think you would have a problem with a rifle that has the normal LOP (13.5") with a recoil pad added (should increase the LOP but .5" to .75"). I have long arms in addition to being nearly as tall as you (and I'm not one of those people that add 2" to their height when asked about it :) ).

    I can shoot 2" groups consistently at a quarter mile with my Savage. It came from the factory with a heavy barrel and a great stock (H-S Precision) and an even better trigger (a target AccuTrigger). Rifles like these are generally more accurate than the person pulling the trigger. I know mine is. I shoot off the shelf ammo too. Black Hills makes the best that I've found and it isn't all that expensive.

    BTW there are plenty of people who shoot a .223 1000 yards and more. It's not as easy as doing it with a .308 but it certainly can be done. I've never had the chance to try personally since my range is limited to a quarter of a mile.

    Mainly my point is that there are some very nice rifles around (made by several different companies). I like Savage and CZ (and I own both because I like them) because they have excellent triggers but so does Sako and Tikka. Sako is generally more expensive for the same amount of accuracy IMO but they are excellent rifles. I like Savage because you can get a great rifle at a decent price plus you can build your own rifle adding whatever parts you want too. For example changing out a barrel is about as easy as it gets on a Savage. Most guns require a gunsmith for that job but not Savage. Just a couple of tools and some quickly learned know how and you can DIY.

    The thing that should determine what caliber you want is what you're going to do with the rifle. If you're shooting targets a .223 is fine out to at least 600 yards even for people who are just learning. For longer distances bigger calibers are better but that .223 can reach out there with more practice. If you plan to hunt what will you be hunting? Varmints are a lot easier to kill than an elk. So if you can give us a little more info it should help us help you with a caliber choice.
     
  16. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Thanks, this helps a lot.
     
  17. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  18. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Really? This is useful. Thanks.
     
  19. billt

    billt New Member

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    This is my Savage Model 10-FP in .308. It will do 99.9% of what you are looking to accomplish with a rifle. The rifle as you see it is totally box stock, and runs around $1,000.00 set up the way you see it.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. TCH2FLY

    TCH2FLY New Member

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    Perhaps you care to explain what you mean by "step up to 5.56" from .223. Frankly it makes no sense.