Confused on what a Class III FFL is...

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by Fates_Enemy, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    I am a lil confused about what a Class III FFL exactly is. What does having one allow me to do/own, compared to just being a basic Gun Owner. Do I need a Class III FFL to own a .50 cal Rifle, like the barret M99 ? So I was hoping someone can tell me what the benefits to having a Class III FFL is, and what it allows me to own, compared to not having one. And What I have to do, to go about getting one.

    I am 25yrs old by the way, so I am assuming that is old enough to get the Class III FFL. and i only have two things on my criminal record, none of which are assault, or violence related, and they are both just misdemeanors (possession of paraphernalia, got caught with a weed pipe back when i was 18, and then when i was 19 i got a 3rd degree theft for stealing some beer, so nothing bad, no felonies or anything), so from what I have been told, my charges will not affect owning a gun or anything.
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    In 1934 (seems like yesterday) the US enacted the National Firearms Act, which created certain regulated classes of firearms. The one you hear about most often is Class III, usually full auto (machine guns).

    YOU will not get a FFL, Class III or otherwise, unless you intend to "engage in the business" of buying and selling machine guns (or other regulated firearm, such as short barreled rifles, suppressors, etc)

    If you want to OWN a Class III firearm, it is transferred to you by a Class III dealer. That transfer must be approved by the BATFE. Requires an application, approval of your local police chief, fingerprints, and payment of a $200 transfer tax.

    Some STATES have laws more stringent than Fed law- if you reside in Hawaii, you cannot own a suppressor. Live in CA, no .50 cal rifles, etc.

    The .50 Barrett style of rifle is NOT a class III, and requires no special license or transfer through a class III dealer. But a .55 Boys anti-tank rifle from WW 2 IS a class III- a Destructive Device. Over 50 cal, no sporting use. A Holland and Holland .600 Nitro Express rifle is NOT class III- larger than .50, BUT it is a sporting rifle.

    Complex subject, have tried to simplify, yes, there are exceptions here and there. But unless you are "in the business" of buying and selling guns regulated under the 1934 GCA, there is no special permit that you get.

    So- what's on your wish list? And welcome to the forum- when you get a minute, stop by the intro thread, and say howdy.
     

  3. GunNut

    GunNut New Member

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    A Class III is a Special Occupational Tax (SOT) an ATF Type 01 or 02 FFL will pay to be engaged in dealing in NFA Weapons. If I remember correctly a Class II is an SOT for an ATF Type 07 Firearms Manufacturer while a Class I in on an ATF Type 08 Firearm Importer FFL. They are usually reduced rates from $1,000 to $500 to be engaged in the business.

    Not to be confused with an ATF Type 3 Curios and Relic FFL.
     
  4. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    hahha, my wish list ? where to start. I will break it down to a top 5.

    1.) a Barrett M95 .50cal - Impact Guns - BARRETT 95 50 CAL REPEATER

    2.) FNH SCAR-H - FN Herstal SCAR 17S Rifle 7.62mm 16in 20rd Dark Earth for sale - 98541 - Tombstone Tactical

    3.) FNH FiveSeveN - Impact Guns - FN Five-seveN USG, Dark Earth, Adjustable Sights, 20RD

    4.) Bushmaster M4A3 - Impact Guns - Bushmaster M4 ''Patrolman'' A3 16" W/30 Rd Mag

    5.) Remington R700 SPS Tactical - Remington 700 SPS Tactical 308win $581.00 SHIPS FREE

    those are the ones i want the most, not necessarily in that order, and as far as the R700 goes, i want that one from the link, except with the same stock and barrel and Scope from the Army M24 SWS. And obviously i want various other mods on the other guns too, but it would take me too long to get into that. I definitely want a nice EOTech Holo-Sight that would work for both the SCAR and the M4 as well as a nice Trijicon ACOG, to swap between. I am really into long-range marksmanship too, which is why I am a big fan of sniper rifles, especially the R700, which in my opinion (not including .50cal rifles) is one of, if not the, best sniper rifle ever made (Tho, the German kar98k from WWII would also be a close competitor for the best in my opinion). I would also really like to find a M14 EBR mod 0 mk 1 but I haven't found one that is for sale to the civilian market. So yea, those are some of the Firearms i want the most. There are many more, but those are the ones i want the most.

    EDIT - I looked up those .600 and .700 Nitro Express rounds you mentioned, since I never heard of them (I've heard of the .50cal Action Express Round that the Desert Eagle uses) and holy **** ! Those are ****in big rounds. I wouldn't even be able to being to imagine what that would do to Human Tissue! I don't care where you got hit with one of those, your are DONE ! What rifles shoot those rounds ? I am aware they are meant for Big Game like in Africa and such, but like I said, i never heard of them until now, so I have never heard of rifles that are chambered for that caliber either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Nice wish list. Of course, I would also like an Aston-Martin, a Rolls Royce, a Bugatti, and a Lamborgini........

    As far as the .H&H .600 NE- that was made for a double barreled big game rifle that weighed about 21 pounds. I have one round of Kynoch .600 NE in my cartridge collection.

    But if you think THAT is impressive, permit me to edumacate you a touch- introducing a truly bonkers gun and ammo designer- Mr. J. D. Jones.

    .950 JDJ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  6. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    hahha, yea but I bet I get at least one of those guns before you get one of those cars lol I really want that SCAR-H, i have about 2,100$ Saved up for a gun, and I am contemplating whether or not to just give in a buy something I can afford now like the Bushmaster M4 or the R700, or save up a lil more and go for that SCAR-H, I kno it sounds stupid, but ever since Modern Warfare 2 came out, I have been in love with the SCAR-H. I got to shoot the SCAR-L a couple months back (aka the SCAR 16s) which shoots the 5.56 round, but I much rather have that 7.62 round. I am not a big fan of 5.56, the M4 is about the only gun I want that shoots it, but from what I've been told, there is a way to make the AR-15 chambered for the 7.62 round. Dont kno if thats true or not.
     
  7. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    By the way, while i have your attention. Is there a difference between .223 and 5.56 ? Can a gun chambered for .223 shoot 5.56 and visa versa ? I always thought that .223 was just the civilian name for 5.56, but I am starting to think I guessed wrong lol Sorry for the newb question. I am fairly new to the gun world, only own a few guns. Been shooting for quite a long time, but only in the last few years have I really got into all the technical side of Guns and Ammo and Marksmanship, etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  8. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Chamber is slightly different, 5.56 has higher pressure. A rifle in 5.56 can shoot either, a .223 rifle should not fire 5.56.

    The exact reverse is true for .308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO.
     
  9. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    So a rifle chambered for .308 is able to shoot 7.62 but a rifle chambered for 7.62 shouldn't shoot .308. And when you say "Shouldn't" do you mean that it can, but its just not safe, or that it just "Can't" shoot those rounds.

    And which would you say is better, .223 or 5.56 ?

    and say, that I had an M4 that has the 16" barrel, but wanted a 14.5" military style barrel, what would I have to do, to make sure I was legal. Cause I kno, from what you said, and from what I read, that short barrel's fall under Class III and I believe anything under 16" is considered short barrel, correct ?

    btw, is that Byron (can't remember his last name) the Bow and Arrow guy, in your avatar ? If thats who i think it is, then as you already kno, he is friggin amazing ! I have watched that guy make some unbelievably crazy shots with his Bow. The other day on TV I saw him hit a Golf Ball outta the air ! which was incredibly hard to do i can imagine. Such a tiny target, going through the air, especially since its small and white, it would be very hard to see.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  10. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    Something like this would be Class III right - BHI-15 (S) Short Barrel Rifle

    so if I wanted to buy this offline, i would have to have it sent to a Class III Dealer, and then go through them and do all the paperwork and have it transferred to me, and pay that 200$ tax thing right ?
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    A rifle with a barrel less than 16 inches, or overall length under 26 inches, is an SBR- yes, it would be transfered to you thru a Dealer that has a Class III SOT. Yes, you go thru pretty much same paperwork as for a full auto, and same fee. Check your STATE laws before gong too far- easy way is to find a Class III dealer, go talk with them.

    Re: Avatar, that is Strother Martin, is his role as "Captain" from the movie Cool Hand Luke. Note the signature line.


    Re: 5.56, there is no best. It is unsafe to fire 5.56 in a .223, unsafe to fire .308 in a 7.62. It CAN be done, but not safely. Note: To the person sitting there about to say "I've done that dozens of times with no problems"- another quote- from Clint Eastwood- "You've got to ask yourself- Do I feel lucky? Well.....do ya ?"
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  12. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    Word, thanks for all the info bro, I appreciate it.

    And you should look at a picture of that Byron Ferguson, cause your avatar looks just like him lol
     
  13. GunNut

    GunNut New Member

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    A rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches and an overall length of less than 26 inches is a Short Barreled Rfiel (SBR) defined under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A Class III SOT on an ATF Type 01 or 02 FFL within your state of residence is required in order for you to acquire the firearm. The Class III SOT FFL will facilitate the transfer of said NFA Weapon to you by helping you prepare and submit an ATF Form 4; Application for a Tax Paid Transfer of an NFA Weapon.

    However you may apply directly to ATF to assemble your own SBR using an ATF Form 1 without an FFL as long as SBR's are legal in your State of residence and that is the place you plan to use and store the weapon.
     
  14. Fates_Enemy

    Fates_Enemy New Member

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    Um, you just said everything the other guy already said lol thanks anyways tho lol
     
  15. GunNut

    GunNut New Member

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    Sorry about that; this is what happens when you do not scan the second page before you respond.
     
  16. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA New Member

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    Correct. It would have to go through a dealer in your state, unless you were buying it from a resident of your state. Then no dealer is required by federal statute. The $200 transfer tax (thing) goes in with the submission of the Form 4 and associated paperwork. After 4-8 months, the dealer will receive the approved Form 4 back and transfer the rifle to you on a standard 4473. You must maintain the Form 4 with stamp as proof of registration, but you can make a copy to keep on you or with the rifle (I do both) and safely store the original.
     
  17. aarohel

    aarohel New Member

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    I'm in school for my Masters in Security Management with the intent of starting a consulting firm for PSD and other type security consulting. My question is in regards to type of license I need to purchase equipment such as suppressors, and rifles like the M6A2 UCIW by LWRC Int.
    Caliber: 5.56 NATO and 6.8 SPC
    Barrel Length: 8"
    Weight (unloaded): 6.25lbs
    Length (overall): 22" - 24.3"
    My state has does not ban suppressors and I understand I would need to pay a one time tax stamp fee of $200 which would then give me the legal right to have possession of the suppressor. I'm not concerned about the background as I already have a CCP and a Security Clearance. I'm just trying to get educated as to which route I need to go in order to purchase and maintain weapons as such so that the people I employ will be allowed to carry them while on the job. I appreciate any and all ideas and insight to help me navigate these bureaucratic red tape waters.
    Thank you.
     
  18. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    In the case of a corporation, the firearms (and a suppressor IS a firearm under Federal law) would be owned by the corporation. Transfer would be to the corporation. Full auto firearms that can be transferred to a private corporation will have a price that takes your breath away- a transferrable M16 is around $16,000.

    You do not need a special license to own them nor to possess them- but the transfer of ownership must be approved by the BATFE. It cannot violate the laws in that state- SOME states ban full autos or suppressors.

    Your first shopping stop should be to locate a Class III DEALER in your home state- they can guide you through the process.
     
  19. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA New Member

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    "Class III" is a misnomer, but widely used and probably the easiest way to refer to the Special Occupational Tax category of dealer/manufacturer license. More about that later.

    You, as an individual, can purchase as many firearms/suppressors as your wallet can bear. But if you buy them as an individual, the only way anyone else carry/use them is with you present. If you create a trust or limited liability corporation (LLC) you can list other people who can use the trust's/LLC's assets.

    For your purposes, you will probably create a more traditional corporation (since you will actually be conducting business and not just trying to buy NFA firearms) and you will want to get a corporate lawyer involved in the process.

    If you decided that you wanted to become a FFL/SOT dealer, there are a few hoops through which you need to jump AND there are costs involved that will cause heart palpitations if you are going it alone. Again, as a legitimate security corporation, a lot of costs will be tax deductible and of limited concern.

    Read the rules on the ATF website about licensing procedures; it might help.
     
  20. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    MasterSgt- Good post- and he IS correct- Class III is not the legal term for the dealer- but when you mention SOT (Special Occupational Tax) you usually get a vacant look from folks.