CONFIRMED- Citizen Shot In Las Vegas Walmart Was A CCW Lic. Holder

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by JYD, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. JYD

    JYD New Member

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  2. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    just because a person has a permit to carry and a gun, doesn't guarantee them a win in a gunfight. all it does is even the odds a bit.
     

  3. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    Well just another sad fact of this story. Unfortunately we will never know all the details and never see any video footage.

    This is why training is important. If you hear gunshots, first take cover, second identify threat, third plan to engage or flee. Out of that order and the chances of survival are lower. Of course this all is time dependent.


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  4. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I hope you are not implying that having a CCW makes one a "superman" and impervious to bullets.

    Training, incident planning, and situation awareness all come into play.
     
  5. Easy_CZ

    Easy_CZ Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    He wasn't saying that at all. He was saying that having a gun doesn't guarantee you won't get hurt or killed if you engage a BG.


    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
    Winston Churchill
     
  6. trans_atlantic_maverick

    trans_atlantic_maverick New Member

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    Wow, man! That's unfortunate. My condolences to the deceased victims' families...


    trans_atlantic_maverick
     
  7. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    Well according to CNN who just issued a report on the incident (take THAT with a grain of salt) the shooterS were a husband/wife team. Both shared extreme anti-gov views. Both were involved in the shootings. The guy was supposedly involved in the Bundy ranch incident but when his criminal record was discovered he was kicked off the ranch.

    According to CNN, the couple walked into a Walmart, fired a shot, and yelled for people to run. The guy was a CCW then proceeded to confront the guy and not realizing that the woman was with him, walked right passed her. She then pulled her gun and shot him in the back.
     
  8. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  9. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    The CCW was too focused on the guy.
    Again, proper training may have helped (suspect everyone in the immediate area).

    I do not know the experience level of the CCW, but there are times it is better to watch instead of confront.

    By confronting, the CCW was forced to direct his attention to the only perceived threat.

    Would the results have been different if the shooters were forced to react to being shot at?
     
  10. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    #1 never confront a Gun Bearing attacker If you are alone. Even if your spouse is unarmed, if they are watching your 6,...you might avoid getting shot in the back,..or at least have enough warning to respond...


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  11. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    I completely agree. Sometimes there is no shame in running. Especially in this situation where it appears the gunman fired a single shot into the air and told everyone to run and get out of the building. He then yelled something about the police are coming. I haven't heard all of the facts but from what it sounds like gunman wasn't intending to target anyone else in the store. Now perhaps he was wanting to have a shootout with the cops and Walmart but that I guess we'll never know.


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  12. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    All I can say is God Bless Joseph Wilcox for doing what he felt was right! Truth known, many CCW holders would have fell victim to the same situation. I guess all CCW holders can gain from his situation and ultimate price so maybe his loss is not in vain! As one here has said, there should be much more to deciding to carry than just to have a weapon on you. For example before deciding to take any action we should have total situation awareness. And training should be of priority if we are going to carry. Aware of cover, aware of total surroundings including people and their actions. Do not get tunnel vision! And focus only on one precise area or person! We call it covering your "6"! No doubt the B was "pacing him" (Jpseph) while he was approaching here scum bag husband. So I am sure there may have been signs if Joseph would have been trained and aware of them. But if carrying one must mentally train for a possible confrontation. It is critical and a part of valuable training. Awareness is the key as well as marksmanship, mental preparation and training, training, training! Next time you go to a shopping center or store mentally think in your mind of what you would do in the area if certain situations there or in a store would occur. In police mental preparedness and training this is done all the time! It is also a part of mental conditioning and training and should be considered when planning on carrying. Let's learn from Joseph and not let a similar situation happen to any of us! But I commend him for his willingness to confront an aggressor but unfortunately there was a second!
    And before taking any action make sure you have the ability to survive!

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  13. AR10

    AR10 New Member

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    In a confrontation, you get tunnel vision.

    Some of us on here are handgun trainers, and we stress this in classes, but in his class, I guess, that was something he missed or forgot.

    Wolves travel in packs. Also, never trust a momma wolf, just because she shaves her legs and not her face.

    You need cover, and you need an area, where the surroundings protect your back. Holding a CHP (CCW) does not make one Rambo. In some cases, it is good to come to the aid of people (officers) needing help, but you must be very cautious, not to cause more harm than good. What if he had fired as a CHP holder? How do you make sure of a good backstop in Wal-Mart? How many shoppers might have the CHP holder killed?

    I want everyone to think of eating out, and box stores, in the correct light. They are potentially very dangerous places.

    Many police officers, will not eat out, in uniform, like these two officers did. It is just too dangerous to let your guard down.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  14. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    Joseph Wilcox stepped up. He didn't have to. He went toward the shooters, not out the door. He had no bulletproof vest and no back-up was on the way. He was outnumbered and outgunned.

    Why? Because others were in peril.

    This man is a real HERO:

    [​IMG]


    It PISSES ME OFF to no end to see the media giving detailed coverage to the back shooting psychotards and nothing to Mr. Wilcox.:mad:

    He deserves the recognition.

    He deserves to be remembered.

    His family would be grateful for proper acknowledgment and so would the rest of us.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  15. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Getting training in this area is prohibitively expensive. Cheap training is $60 a class. It is very easy to blow up thousands and learn absolutely nothing. One top of that the guy doing the training is anti gun. The all have no concealed weapon rules. If you do not trust me with a concealed weapon on your range or training center I cannot use your facility. I cannot be a hypocrite. I am not going to quit going to my favorite restaurant because they have a gun buster sign, then patronize a range that wants to disarm me. For me it is black and white, either your pro gun or you are not.
     
  16. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    John,

    You are correct! Training is expensive! But what some here on the forum may not realize there are a number of present, past LE/ Govt. and Professional Trainers here on the Forum. With what I am sure combined have hundreds of years of training experience! Who are more than glad to share "Free" ideas regarding training and instruction with the members who might need it.
    Then all the members would have to do is take the ideas and instruction pointers to their firearms range or back fourty and do their own training. Of course safety and proper weapon handling skills is the number one goal! One does not have to go spend a fortune to take advantage of their experience. And as long as the person is serious about training repetition is the answer. You also do not have to spend a forutne on hundreds of rounds to gain what is needed each training session if you focus 100% on what you are doing and do drills that produce results. One can go to the range and blow 100 rounds but if they do it right, they can do what is needed each session with 30 or 50 rounds. It is all what you do with the time!

    03
     
  17. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    Both AR10 & Sniper are correct. Wilcox is still a hero because he gave a squat and his only mistake was not being aware of the 2nd Wackjob , the wife...


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  18. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I know that nobody is blaming Wilcox or pointing the finger and I know the intention is to educate members who are reading this, but......

    Wilcox was killed by a woman. In a Walmart. A Walmart with people in it.

    Women are not usually mass shooters. In fact, it is extremely rare.

    I can see how anybody could have taken their eyes of a woman - who was likely smart enough to hide her handgun as she sidled in behind him, maybe pretending to be going to the door.

    All the "situational awareness" training in the world is not going to make anybody perfect or invulnerable. Assuming he saw her but did not see a threat - and I AM going to give this dead hero the benefit of the doubt - I can see why he would have taken his eyes off her. He was in a deadly serious situation against unknown shooter(s). He was alone. His radar was likely not tuned for young blonde women. My radar would have had the same tuning.

    I wonder what percentage of the second guessers would stepped up? Or would they have lost control of their bladder and made for the doors?

    I have nothing but deep respect for this man. I've been outnumbered - not with guns, mind you - but I assure you that such a situation will absolutely focus your mind. Add guns to the mix, - which he knew - and then see what you do and don't do...... makes me get a tad choked up.

    Like I said, I cannot fathom why this man does not get 10x the attention given to the back-stabbing loser POS that killed him....and ambushed the cops.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  19. jon2868

    jon2868 New Member

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    The media gives the two worthless human beings more attention because it is in their best interest to. Two pro gun, anti government, tea party supporters go on a cop killing spree. They are going to emphasize that info all day. This is right up their ally! Mr Wilcox is a hero and it is a shame that things are the way they are.


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