Compressed Loads

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by mrb1982, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    I am new to reloading, and I am going to be loading some 7mm Rem Mag for a Sendero with 26" barrel. I have a buddy who has a lot of reloading experience that is going to be helping me. I am going to shoot 168gr Berger VLD hunting bullets. I had Berger send me their reloading data for all the different powders and stuff. They give min and max's, and also a fill ratio. For instance, the max load on H1000, which I am very interested in using, is a 100.1% fill ratio. Is that a compressed load? Seating depth will probably play a role in that too I'm sure. Is anything over 100% a compressed load? Any explanation to clarify this for me would be helpful. Thanks. Also, any input you have on compressed loads would be appreciated. My buddy isn't necessarily a fan of them, but I am curious if anybody else has any thought on them. Thanks for the input.
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    Depends on their definition of 100%. I take it to mean right to the case mouth.

    Compressed loads burn more evenly than looser loadings as the powder in loads with lots of empty space have more surface area to ignite so burn rates can vary.

    In extreme cases it can cause detonation which is very much no bueno.

    Using a long drop tube to fill the case helps pack the powder better. Using fire formed cases to your rifle chamber also helps. Full length resizing returns the case to its factory dimensions. Once fired cases that were fired in your gun then neck sized only have much greater case volume.

    Using a wood dowl to gently pack the case halfway way without crushing then adding the rest of the charge can help in extreme cases.

    Another good tool is one of those small personal vibratory "massagers" women like to have in the purse at times. Put a finger over the case mouth and vibrate the case gently can pack the powder.

    Just some ideas
     

  3. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    Cool, thanks for the info. Yeah, they give a OAL in their info and I'm sure the 100.1% is based on that. I will be having some full length sized cartridges on the first time around, but then will be fire formed after that. I don't think that at 100.1% would be so little compression that it would probably be hardly noticeable. The fill ratio for the Retumbo they quite is 106% and that seems like it would be a lot of work for someone like myself who hasn't done much reloading. Once again, thanks for the info, that was great.
     
  4. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

    944
    0
    0
    HOLY CRAP MAN are you trying to kill someone? Sorry that is one of the DUMBEST things I have read.

    1st. Max loads hardly ever give you the best accuracy.

    2nd seeing as you are starting out man I would stick to loads that are not so high. If you mess up on a max load BOOM. If you mess up on a middle of the range load you get a little more or less velocity.

    3rd I have found in my 30+ years that all of my loads that produce the best accuracy are filled to the bottom of the neck to the bottom of the shoulder.

    To load a compressed load the long drop tube is your best friend.
     
  5. trip286

    trip286 New Member

    18,658
    1
    0
    Jon, did you really just suggest using a sex toy in the course of reloading? I'm gonna write that down.
     
  6. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    I have heard that max loads are very seldom the best. More the anomaly rather than the rule. If I am not shooting at a max load I really wouldn't have much trouble I don't think.

    I am thinking H1000 or RE-22, but with the 7mm Rem Mag, I have heard the H1000 works better with the bigger bullets, like 165+, and the RE-22 works better with the 150ish stuff. I would like to try to shoot the H1000 and if I'm not shooting max or above, I more than likely won't have to worry about compression. It should work out just fine.
     
  7. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    compressed loads have already been tested for pressure, so are safe to use in modern firearms, the reloading books wouldn't list them, unless they were safe to use.

    max loads can be the most accurate or the least accurate, depends on the firearm. one rifle maybe more accurate with max load, whereas another maybe with the minimum load.

    you always start at the minimum load and work your way up and then find the one that works the best and then fine tune it.

    that may be what works great in your rifle, but another rifle may like a different load to be accurate.
     
  8. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    6,130
    119
    63
    Compressed loads of slow burning powder are not necessarily maximum loads. Some of my most accurate handloads are compressed: Some of those loads are maximum, some are not.
     
  9. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    Does anybody have any of their own velocity info that they've gathered with their 7 mag using H1000 or Reloder 22? I'm not a speed freak, but would like to be around 2900 if I can. Is that attainable with Reloder 22, with good accuracy of course?
     
  10. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

    5,360
    3
    38
    I use IMR4831. 3000fps max velosity. I run them at 2900. I'm not sure why you want a slower burning powder. 4831 is pretty much the standard. RL22 is about the same burn rate for less $. This is for 160gr loads. Data shows the 175gr can be pushed a little faster without increaseing pressure, so the 168 should be the same.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  11. Richz99

    Richz99 New Member

    29
    0
    0
    Just went through the wife's purse... What I found wasn't small at all... I don't think I'll be using THAT for reloading.

    Rich.
     
  12. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    You do state some good points there. I have a buddy who is a firm believer in a version of 4350 for about everything. Shooting a 4831 or 4350 variant would be a good idea because I could use it for my 7mm and 270.

    Would it be a fair statement that I should be able to reach 2900fps with about any of these powders with accuracy, or would that thinking be a little too optimistic? I don't mean in every case, just most cases.

    From what I have read from on some of the long range forums and this forum about the 7mm, in a lot of cases that 2900fps range seems to fair the most accurage for them. Once again, not all cases, just most cases. I don't think 2900fps would be too much to ask out of a 4831 or 4350 style powder, would it?
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    compressed loads arent usually max loads. its just powder that is very bulky.

    i didnt say take a dowel and a hammer and smash the hell out of it till it goes squish!! you also dont grind it like a mortar and pestle. gently pressing with a dowel is much less force than when the bullet compresses the powder charge.

    you obviously have never loaded for rounds like the 458 winmag where heavily compressed charges have to be loaded and compressed in stages just to get middle powered loadings.

    some cases require both drop tubes and compressing the charge BEFORE the bullet is seated to use certain powders. those powders are often the most reliable for accurate results.

    i started reloading and working on heavily compressed cartridges in the mid 80's

    anyway thats why i listed several different techniques for compressing the charges. pick what ya want
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    yes it works well actually. just hold it in hand turn it on and go from there. just keep the case mouth covered with a finger. works fantastic on flake or ball powders. not so much on stick powder
     
  15. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

    5,360
    3
    38
    W/ 160..175gr it seems to be that way. I've used 4320 and 4064. Both have more felt recoil. W/ 4831 my 160gr loads chrono at 2953fps average. 61gr exactly. Max is 63gr. CCI Magnum primers (250) and Remington brass. I don't use short cut as I scale every round.
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    i found load data for the 7mm rem. mag. in Nosler's volume #6 that works great in my Remington M700 SPS. 140gr ballistic tip bullet, starting load of 50.0gr of IMR4895 powder using CCI Magnum rifle primers. i got to 52.0 gr of powder and still nedd to fine tune a little. i like the IMR4895 powder for this rifle better than the IMR4064 or IMR4350 because recoil is lessened quite a bit. i can shoot 50-70 rounds of this load in a day of target shooting with no pain the next day. with the IMR4895 powder, 50.0gr is only 71% case volume, and has a MV of 2900 fps, at 52.0gr, volume is 73% and MV is around3000 fps. less recoil good MV, for me this load works great and have had some very good results with accuracy so far.
     
  17. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    Is there a way to anticipate recoil differences between powders based on speed or something? Where does Reloader 22 fall for recoil?
     
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    15
    38
    newton's law. if powder charge x drives the bullet 1fps faster than powder charge y powder charge x will have more recoil. that is if the same weight bullet is used in each
     
  19. mrb1982

    mrb1982 New Member

    177
    0
    0
    fair enough. I didn't think there was some great science to it, and now I know. lol
     
  20. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
    speed of powder is proportionate to recoil. faster burning powders will have more felt recoil than slower burning powders in the same case. this is why Hornady ammo has more felt recoil than other ammo, they are using very fast burning powders to acheive faster muzzle velocity.