compensator

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by HSQ, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    Hey everyone! I have an interesting idea that not necessarily practical, but I'd like to discuss with yall just for fun.

    1. a hypothetical free floating barrel that could revolve around its own axis freely.

    2. a hypothetical compensator with unique venting holes that they are lined up with a certain angle to the axis of the barrel, forming a shape of vortex.

    Now, upon firing, part of the propellant gas escapes through the compensator and creates a gas vortex which causing the whole barrel spin around its central axis. Since we used a part of that propellant energy spinning the barrel, we should feel less energy coming back towards the shoulder, thus, less recoil.

    we all know that give a bullet a lil spin can stabilize it traveling through the air, now would a spinning barrel give you a more stable handling while firing automatically?

    Tell me what do you think about it.
     
  2. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Welcome to our forum.
    We have a section called "Introductions". Stop in there and say "Hi".

    Now let's get about your idea.
    Please understand that there is a good possibility that the BATF is reading this answer at the same time you do.

    There would be problems with extraction and ejection of the spent round. The lands and grooves in a barrel does a good job of stabilizing a bullet now.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    If you were able to do a barrel on a rotating ring of bearings you would never be able to zero it as the poi would change everytime it spun on the axis. On top of that to make it tight enough to the bearings to prevent it flopping around it either wouldn't spin due to friction or you wouldn't be able to pick it up due the weight of the superstructure and bearings needed to support it.

    Why not just get a surefire muzzle brake which already is one of the best out there for reducing or eliminating muzzle climb....
     
  4. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    Hi! thank you for welcoming me!
    I know it would be a problem for extraction and ejection, and possibly a problem for every other step along the cycle.
    and yes the rifling does a very good job stabilizing a bullet, but I was asking would a spinning barrel give a better handling on the gun.
     
  5. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    I agree that the friction could prevent it from spinning when you make the bearing tight enough.
    I dont think weight is really a problem, we have multi barrel gatling gun, and we only have 1 barrel here.

    now about the POI, say the gun is carefully measured n' designed using a certain round, so the barrel rotate only 360' on each round, that way the barrel would start to spin only after the bullet leaves the barrel, and after 360 degrees of rotation, it stops and chambers a new round. What would be the POI then?

    This idea was actually from an very old patent mechanism I found a while ago on google, the original idea was cut venting holes on the barrel to help it spin, but that would decrease velocity.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    If the barrel spun about it's axis, it would have some of the effect of a gyro. When a gyro is spinning, a push applied to it is redirected at a right angle to the push.

    Since the push is backwards, 90 degrees to that would be left/right or up/down. Meaning your recoil could go SIDEWAYS. That could get ugly...
     
  7. stoneam2006

    stoneam2006 New Member

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    Would the barrel spinning the same way as rifling or againt it make a difference?
     
  8. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Does it matter in which direction you spin a gyro?
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Well to stabilize a 308 the barrel would have to hit something north of 200,000 rpm...

    A dremel tool which is pretty speedy barely hits 35,000 rpm...

    A 20mm vulcan spins at About 7000 rpm...

    An average car tire rotates at around 800 rpm at 60 mph...

    I doubt you could put enough vents in a barrel to get it going that fast. I doubt you could do it using a turbo jet engine for propulsion.

    Rifling is a very simple cheap and elegant solution to stabilizing projectiles. One of the main reasons we aren't using rail guns is, there is no way to effectively stabilize the projectile at range
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  10. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    If the whole set up was loose enough to spin freely from the gas "vortex" it would spin freely enough that the barrel would spin instead of the bullet. Accuracy would be non-existant
     
  11. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Rail guns are coming and most big tanks have smooth bore cannons. The projectiles are self stabilizing and very accurate.
     
  12. duddie10

    duddie10 New Member

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    If the barrel would most likley spin off alot of the bullets volicity. When the bullet hit ls the rifiling on a barrel that spins it would want to find the easest path out and doing the math would most likley start spinning the barrel before the gases hit tue comp.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Firearms Talk mobile app
     
  13. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    good point
     
  14. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    I didn't say use the barrel rotation to stabilize the bullet instead of barrel rifling, barrel still has rifling.
    I said barrel rotates only after bullet left the barrel, let's take a look at guns like PX4, although not 360 degrees, but its barrel rotates too. I know the concept is different at all, PX4 rotates back n' forth and it's short recoil cam driven, but it only rotates after bullet left the barrel and stops while chambering.
     
  15. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    they are smooth bore fin stabilized rounds or saboted rounds where the sabot imarts spin. short range projectiles only. rail guns are extreme high velocity and current metalurgy tends to rip fins or destabilize the rounds unless perfectly machined costing a ton. anyway rail guns are impractical right now and just a huge sinkhole to burn tax dollars.

    rotating barrel serves no purpose after the bullet leaves the barrel... the px4 the barrel doesnt spin it just unlocks sideways instead of up and down to get a lower bore axis. it serves no plus or minus in recoil due to the rotation itself. a lower bore axis improves how recoil forces are applied.
     
  16. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    HSQ, That is a lot of energy spent in trying to accomplish the action you are looking for.

    I don't know your experience, but check out the bolt carrier of an AR or such rifle.
     
  17. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    well, your probably right. I couldn't decide to stop doing dumb things:eek::p
    I kinda reversed the concept of PX4 and drew this
     

    Attached Files:

  18. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    to be honest, I aint no expert or enthusiast, all my firearm experience were the few magazines I shot out of a glock in a shooting range long while ago, I just dont have all the money and time in the world to support what I like, but I do enjoy watching everything about firearms on the internet espeicaly those channels on youtube
     
  19. huntmaster

    huntmaster New Member

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    You're overlooking Newton's law. An object at rest tends to stay at rest.

    Since the bullet (and gasses) are in the barrel about .001 seconds or so, I would hate to think of the amount of energy it would take to rotate a mass of a few pounds to the point it would do any good.....IF it did any good to do so.

    On the other end of it, the forces acting on a rifle from firing are a forward/back force, again based on "equal and opposite reactions". The weight of the firearm counters the forward force being placed on the projectile. A modern compensator also redirects some of the gasses expelled, which acts the same as the initial force, only in the reverse direction. The only force you suggest to impart on the system is rotational, which is not a part of the forces being placed on the system. (ever heard of a large bore rifle being redesigned to make it heavier? That's why.)

    If you are referring to the affects of the projectile spinning in the rifling, that force is countered by the weight of the barrel, which is more than sufficient absorb that force. Also, twist is selected very specifically for stabilization. Any alteration of that would throw the end gyroscopics off by either decreasing or increasing the rotation of the projectile, depending on the direction you proposed to turn the barrel. Come to think of it, if the barrel spun freely enough, theoretically the barrel would start to spin opposite the twist, counteracting what ever the porting did further down the barrel.

    You can tinker all you want, but the laws of physics will remain consistent.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  20. HSQ

    HSQ New Member

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    knowledge received. thank you