Combat sights

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by NGIB, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I was surfing this morning and ran across an article about a gun Ed Brown designed for renowned Sheriff Jim Wilson. Of course it was a tuned 1911 but what really caught my eye were the sights he chose: a plain black rear notch and a white outlined tritium front. I've always preferred this setup myself, and on the "3 dot" guns I own - I "blank out" the rear dots with a Sharpie. Here's his quote to the author when asked why he chose this type of sighting system...

     
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Food for thought. Thanks.
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Eh. [​IMG]

    Agree to disagree.

    JD
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  4. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Indeed. In the dark, I want to be able to find the damn gun, in case I want to throw it at them, for distraction purposes! [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2010
  5. GoBlue

    GoBlue New Member

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    This seems to make a lot of sense.
     
  6. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Just wondering (I may look into later).
    When looking at front sight only in a darkened room, what angle can the firearm tip up before the sight disappear?
    IMO, one should work with what is best for themselves. If you want one dot or three, or a "figure 8" configuration of two dots, if that works for you (and you are not just beginning to get into firearms (read "experienced"), then great.

    Beginners, on clear days, would benefit from plain sights better on the range (to work on basics).

    Again, this is IMO.
     
  7. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    I wonder if this test has ever been done.

    Take someone who trains on an at least semi-regular basis. Blindfold them and have them draw their weapon and fire once, re holster and repeat 20 times at a man shaped target 5 yards away.

    What kind of pattern would they be able to shoot? I'm guessing a high percentage in the black. Muscle memory will aim with reasonable accuracy. If what I have just guessed is true that would make me think that a single dot would be enough. If you can't hit the broad side of a barn with muscle memory then taking that extra second to aim better would probably be a good course of action.
     
  8. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I know with a 1911 I point shoot very well. All my pin guns are setup with a white dot front and wide notch plain black rear. I lay the dot on the pin and muscle memory (and the natural point ability of the 1911) does the rest...
     
  9. gatopardo

    gatopardo New Member

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    I agree to disagree too


    I completely understand the situation described, of course you can shoot about any small weapon without visually lining up the sights with the target, but when possible I'll go with the sights: You have to be physically able to bring your line of vision down and your weapon up to acquire your target, cases of people shooting at each other from less than 10 yards and completely failing are documented. Have you guys seen the video of two deputies and a bad guy at a traffic stop emptying their guns at each other without hits?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk9zC6PzpqI]YouTube - Wilmington Traffic Stop Shootout (Full Version)[/ame]


    I'll try to use this ones on my 1911, I know if I start pulling the trigger without acquiring a target I'll be in disadvantage. Do things right, do things once.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bighead

    Bighead New Member

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    This is basically the same argument made for the XS Big Dot sight, which I have been more and more intrigued by lately.

    [​IMG]

    I completely agree with the idea that with adequate training you should be able to bring the gun up with the sights pretty much aligned. That being true, I'm not sure what disadvantage the rear dots would cause, but to each their own.
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    The only problem I had with the XS sights, and I did get them when they first came out because I liked what they were advertising :eek:.

    The use of the sight picture changes depending on how far you are away. *note: I just checked the sight and that break is now 15 yards and under, versus out to 25 yards, which is way better than the initial ones I got *

    Now, in a self defense situation, which these are designed for, who gives a rip if you are off by an inch or two of center mass as long as bullets are finding flesh?

    But, as I practice with all my pistols, I don't like to mess around with dotting the "I" or covering the "I". I didn't like them and had them removed.

    But that was me, YMMV.

    JD
     
  12. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    I had XS Big Dots on a Sig and they took some getting used to for sure. For me (and my crappy eyesight) the rear dots tend to be distractions for rapid shooting...
     
  13. MB44

    MB44 New Member

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    When I purchased my Sig P250, one of the benefits was that it came with preinstalled night sights in 3-dot setup, somewhat of a standard for night sights I would guess. So, I went to the (indoor-)shooting range one late afternoon where I had the range to myself, and I turned off all the lights. The shooting range allows for some light to enter from the outside, so this gave me dim conditions where I could see the outline of the target but I could definitely not see any details. When I raised and aligned the gun and looked for the sights they came out shining with a very bright green color. Nevertheless, as I tried to simulate a real life situation(draw from concealment and fire) I found that aligning the 3-dot sights was hard, and I had a tendency to put the dot on the front sight either behind the left or right dot on the rear sight. I.e. it was difficult for me to center the dot on the front sight between the two dots on the rear sight. Subsequently I realized that dealing with the night sights delayed my shooting, and by switching over to point shooting as I had been trained in, yielded better results. Possibly I needed more training with the sights, but tried it a couple of times and the results were pretty consistent. My conclusion is that – yes I do need sights, as you might come into a situation that require shooting at objects farther than 10 yards out(even at low light conditions), but at shorter distances my performance has been better by not using the sights and merely point shoot.
     
  14. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I too use the Sharpie on my rear dots when they are present. Have blacked them out for 20+ years; too distracting.

    Before I started putting Heinie's on my Glocks, I would take the old style adjustable factory rear sight and cut off the adjustable portion. Then I'd turn the sight around and put it back in. It was black, low profile and a much wider notch than standard. Used with a Trijicon front, or just a standard dot front they were very fast. Not super precise, but very fast.

    Pointability requires good muscle memory acquired from lots of reps. The pistol should always be held exactly the same. No casual "pick it up and move it"; always hold it like you mean it. If the pistol is properly held it will be "sighted in" as soon as it is picked up. All that is left to do at that time is present it to the target and the sights will be lined up.

    This is easiest to achieve when the same type of pistol is used exclusively. Transitioning from one type to another requires lots of extra reps. Lots.

    Consistency is key.
     
  15. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Jack I thought you had nightvision built into your bionic eyes?
     
  16. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    I do, I am just trying to fit in so no one else feels bad. :eek:

    I only use sights on a handgun if I want to hit a particular spot on a target, especially at a distance.
     
  17. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    I put a set of XS 24/7 night sights on one of my .45's a few years ago. I agree that quickly finding the front sight is critical in a self defense situation. Having been a black or 3 dot shooter for lo-these-many-years, it takes a bit of (old dog) adjustment shooting with them. When I use that pistol for HR218 qualification, they seem to work well at CQC distances, but I haven't used them for anything over 15 yards yet. I need to remind myself they are NOT target sights, but combat sights that are like dangerous game rifle sights. They are made for combat speed, not necessarily target shooting, but I am able to keep a respectable "minute of bad guy" grouping with them.

    P.S. Sheriff Jim stresses the importance of proper stance, and while I agree that is important, we also need to be able to shoot while knocked on our a$$ in unanticipated shooting positions.
     
  18. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Stance is one of the 4 fundamentals of marksmanship, so Sheriff Jim is correct. However, he does not say it must be rock solid every time.

    Sight alignment and trigger control are the two most important of the 4 fundamentals.
     
  19. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper New Member

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    Like others have said, the three dot tritium's on my kimber are nice and bright and they look like three white dots in the daylight. The one problem I found was similiar to what Mb44 said, I'd find the front sight would disappear behind the rear dots and become confusing at speed. Have to really look for the front. The sight picture is just too busy. I tried blackening out the rears with a sharpie and my hits have come much faster and more precise.
    I rub the blackened out rear lamps centers slightly with the edge of my thumbnail and they still look black in the daylight but give off a softer, more toned down glow at night. It makes the front really stand out but also allows for pretty precise aiming in the dark if needed.

    I point shoot pretty well, but lately have been working on learning to track the front sight to help with transitions and shooting on the move. So far this setup has been working for me.
     
  20. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    I always liked the Heine Straight 8 sights over the three dot set up. It just seams easier to stack two than line up three.