Colt Army Navy Modern Revolver Double Action

Discussion in 'Revolver Handguns' started by wooferzzz, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. wooferzzz

    wooferzzz New Member

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    I recently purchased this handgun, it is nickel-plated with what appears to be bone grips(?), I did a search at the Colt site for the serial number, only reason I know exactly what it is, printing on barrel is barely legible. The search on the serial number said it is a 38lc, manufactured in 1902, but the gunsmith told me it is a 41lc. There are some blemishes on the barrel, was wondering if I should try and clean it up or just care for it like it is, action all works, but thinking of getting a second opinion about the caliber, kinda leary of loading 41lc into it...What are y'all's thoughts and does anyone know what it may be worth?
    :anyone:
     
  2. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    It maybe a .38-40? The information you have provided is too limited. We do not know the model or condition. You need to post some good pictures and numbers with your request. If you can use a dial caliper some chamber and bore dimensions would help.:)
     

  3. wooferzzz

    wooferzzz New Member

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    Here are some pictures, the gunsmith that told me it is a 41lc said the bore measurement was .410, I believe. I will have to get a dial caliper, don't own one...yet...
     

    Attached Files:

  4. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    That is a Colt New Service. The early Colt .38-40 heeled bullet and bore dimensions were the same as the .41 Long Colt. The .38-40 heeled was actually a .40-40 caliber. Colt later reduced the .38-40 to .386" and used an inside lubed round. The .38-40 loads over the years are all over the board.
     
  5. superc

    superc Member

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    Midnight I disagree. That is NOT a New Service. His gun has the sideplate on the right, not the left side.

    That is a Colt New Army 1892. A commercial version as it lacks the lanyard loop the martial versions had. Available in 38 LC and 41 LC.

    Nice grips btw
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016
  6. wooferzzz

    wooferzzz New Member

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    Thanks gentlemen, and yes, the grips are nice, kinda stood out when she was shown to me. I think they are bone, but strange, gotta have them looked at.
     
  7. superc

    superc Member

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    If 41 LC don't fit, then it probably is 38 LC just like Colt says. If 41 LC does fit, then Colt is obviously wrong <gasp>. Really you need to swing by a hardware store, or Walmart, and pick up one of the new cheap digital calipers China is flooding the US with. Then mike the chambers front and back and length wise and compare the readings to the dimensions shown in a reasonable reference source like Cartridges of the World. Mlke the barrel dimensions too.
     
  8. VoxRomantic

    VoxRomantic Member

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    Correct, below is a 1905 New Service in 38-40.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Bob Wright

    Bob Wright Member

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    Capt.,

    I beg to differ with you on the .38-40 cartridge ~ it was never a heeled bullet. The .38-40 was derived from the .44-40, and was never reduced in bullet diameter, was always .400" dia. or so. It was introduced for the Winchester Model 1873 as a "small game" cartridge as the .44 was a "deer cartridge." When the round was introduce it was sold as the ".38 W.C.F." and did not become known as the .38-40 until some time after its introduction.

    The original .41 Colt cartridges had a nominal diameter of .401" but was later reduced to .386" to seat inside the case. Here are some vintage .41 Colt cartridges:

    [​IMG]


    The one on the extreme right is the .386" loaded bullet. The "U.S." and "U.S.C." heas stamps are from the United States Cartridge Company, and do not indicate US martial production.

    Bob Wright
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  10. Bob Wright

    Bob Wright Member

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    And those grips appear to be Catalin, a phenolic resin similar to Bakelite. This was an early "plastic" developed for, I believe, dental use.

    The grips John Wayne favored on his six shooters were Catalin.

    Bob Wright
     
  11. superc

    superc Member

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    This touches on a peeve of mine regarding 'Cartridges of the World.'
    From the dawn of cartridges through about 1980 pistol and ammunition makers were fond of sticking their own name on already existing cartridges, sometimes changing the case length or the bullet weight a tad to justify the name changes, and sometimes doing everything exactly the same but just giving it their own name and stamping that on the gun.

    We touch on an example here, but I just finished (while re-manufacturing an obsolete pistol round) the same problem while digging through specifications. Each ammo maker and gun manufacturer often shamelessly copied the other guy, then stuck their own name on the product. If it proved popular enough the other guy's name and product was forgotten but the new name sold.

    In my instance in .44 Henry Flat became the 44 Evans and the 44 Ballard but in Europe that became the .44 Trantor and the .44 Ely then those became (a little shorter) 442 Webley, but in America that became (a little longer again) 44 American, then 44 Russian/Special/magnum *growing a tenth of an inch each time), meanwhile back across the pond the Webley bullet was being stuck into single shot rifles and becoming known as the 44 Rook class of cartridges in Australia (where it was considered a good Kangaroo round), etc, etc. All of them can be made today by modifying .303 brass. It gets annoying.

    Okay, I will shut up now. Apologies for the hijack. :)
     
  12. Bob Wright

    Bob Wright Member

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    I'm not up so much on European cartridges, but the .44 S&W American derived directly from the .44 Henry Rim fire, as S&W had submitted their No. 3 to the Army. The Army rejected it as it was a rim fire. The No.3 was simply altered to center fire without changing chamber dimensions.

    Bob Wright
     
  13. towboater

    towboater Active Member

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  14. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    Gees !! I am glad it was not the gun that killed Lincoln? I would be on trial. ;):D
     
  15. towboater

    towboater Active Member

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    I find you not guilty for reason of insanity. ;)


    Actually you are allowed one mistake per year on this forum. You used it up early in the year. Ya best be careful from here on out. :revolver::eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  16. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    Thanks Towboater. Where do I send your Attorney Fees? :D
     
  17. towboater

    towboater Active Member

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    I am actually not a lawyer I just play one on forums. This one is on the house. Next time ya may have to send me a SAA as payment.