Collecting C&R guns

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by Hoverc, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. Hoverc

    Hoverc New Member

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    I new to the forum and have decided this year to start collecting C&R guns. My question I would like advice on is where is the best place to acquire C&R guns. I know the obvious, e.g., finding someone who needs money fast, but I doubt I will ever have such luck. Anyway, I have been looking at the bigger named auction sites and have looked at the online gun dealers and noticed a fairly large diffference in pricing. The dealers appear to be asking top dollar and the auctions are getting what the auctioners are willing to bid. Anyway, I would appreciate your thoughts/advice on where my best avenues to collecting C&R guns lay.

    I will be applying for my C&R license this week and hope to put it to good use.

    Thanks
    Charlie
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Depends on WHICH C&R guns tickle yer fancy. Me, I like Mossberg and Remington 22 rifles from the 40s and 50s- but also have assorted Milsurps, that NICE little Marlin, and I could not BELEIVE the price on that Flite King pump, and... well, you get the idea.

    Personally partial to auctionarms. I bid on a lot more than I get (thank God!). I travel a lot on business, keep a couple of copies of my C&R in my wallet for targets of opportunity. Last 3 guns shows were a disappointment- I own more Mossbergs than were in all 3 shows combined.

    For auctions, know what it is you are bidding on, what THAT gun is worth, and what you are willing to pay. A "W. Richards" shotgun is NOT a Westley Richards, and just being old does not mean valuable. You can also find the wholesalers that you like, send them a copy of your license, get on their email list.

    And prepare to stay broke for a while. PS- send Numrich and Brownells a copy- they give a nice discount to any FFL holder on parts.
     

  3. flyingbrickracing

    flyingbrickracing New Member

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    +1 on what c3 said, find out what you like.
    I tend to lean toward bolt guns,they just catch my eye.....but then semi autos......
    Once you get it post some pics and show us why you're broke!!!!!:D
     
  4. Glasshartt

    Glasshartt New Member

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    Ok, this is propably a stupid question, but here goes:

    What is C & R? (in relation to guns that is) :confused:
     
  5. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Curio and Relic.
     
  6. gandog56

    gandog56 New Member

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    Define top dollar. I can find Mosin Nagants for around 80 bucks from AIM, J&G Sales, IO, Century International.

    Right now SOG (Southern Ohio Gun) has free shipping on long guns .

    P.S. You do have a C&R license, don't you? I hated having to pay transfer fees before I got mine.
     
  7. Hoverc

    Hoverc New Member

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    C&R collecting

    Thanks guys, I feel a little more confident now. I was mainly asking for opinions on whether you all thought the long road is better served in the autions or the retailers. I haven't tried the auctions yet but have noticed the prebidding was quite a bit lower than the suggested listed estimated values, whereas the online retailers are pretty much asking the high end of the estimated value listed that the auctioneers list on similiar weapons. I was just thinking I probably could get a better deal at the auction unless it is something that everyone just has to have. I'll definitely be in the cheap seats for the auctioned items (3 and 4 figure price range). I missed out on the fortunes everyone else made in the IT boom that can now buy the 6 figure and up collectables. :D

    I'm primarily interested in collecting probably pistols (mostly US military) from the early 1900s and earlier. I love the old revolvers. I may also like to collect a few pre-1900s saddle rifles, both military and western rifles. I only plan on purshasing a couple of guns a year mostly for collecting and passing them on to my family, though I'm sure I will pick up a couple for trading for better stuff later.

    Anyway, Happy New Year and thanks everyone for helping this old man out! I'll be sure to let everyone know what I acquire first and you all can have the pleasure of critiquing whether I paid to much for it! :)

    Charlie
     
  8. Hoverc

    Hoverc New Member

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    Thanks for the tip on Auctionarms. I had not found that site until you mentioned it. Just got back from it and yes, I probably will be broke much of the time. :D

    Charlie
     
  9. karlsgunbunker

    karlsgunbunker New Member

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    AIM Surplus (firearms/ammo seller), P.O. Box 556, Springboro, OH. 45066

    Allan's Armory, P.O. Box 331, Graham, FL 32042
    Aztec International, PO Box 771569, Ocala, FL 34477-1569, (352) 629-6290
    Brownells Inc (gun parts etc.), 200 South Front Street, Montezuma, IA 50171

    Centerfire Systems, 102 Fieldview Dr, Versailles, KY 40383
    Century Arms (firearms/ammo), 1161 Holland Dr., Boca Raton, FL 33487

    Cole Distributing (firearms/ammo seller), P.O. Box 247, Scottsville, KY 42164

    Empire Arms, P.O. Box 2068, Ormond Beach, FL 32175
    FAC of America, 8035 Ranchers Road, Fridley, MN 55432, Phone: 1.800.486.5971
    Graf and Sons, Inc (ammo, reloading, supplies etc.), 4050 S. Clark, Mexico, MO 65265

    Huntingtons (ammo, reloading), P.O. Box 991, Oroville, CA 95965

    J&G Sales (firearms, ammo, accessories), 440 Miller Valley Rd, Prescott AZ 86301

    InterOrdnance, 3305 Westwood Industrial Dr., Monroe, NC 28110

    L.C. Enterprises (firearms, ammo seller), S. 1093 Country Road G, Wonewoc, WI 53968

    Numrich Gun Parts (gunparts Offers DISCOUNT), 226 Williams Lane, W. Hurley, NY 12491

    SARCO Inc. (firearms/ammo, gunparts, accessories), P.O. Box 98, 323 Union Street, Stirling, NJ 07980

    Southern Ohio Guns (SOG) (firearms/ammo), 240 Harmon Ave P.O. Box 590, Lebanon, OH 45036

    Wholesale Guns (firearms/ammo), P.O. Box 289, Calverton, NY 11933

    Midway USA (parts, ammo, reloading, books etc.), Dealer Sales, 5875 W. Van Horn Tavern Rd., Columbia, MO 65203

    Samco (firearms/ammo), 6995 NW 43rd St, Miami, FL 33166


    Send your FFL to these places and to:

    Midway USA
    Brownells
    Numerich
    Graf and sons

    Lots more info here:
    Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle (2006) - Surplusrifle.com
     
  10. Laufer

    Laufer New Member

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    Gun shows.:D How are they in Montgomery and Mobile? Is the C&R just a back-up?

    Except for the show last Saturday, the Southaven/Memphis area shows has always have a few good MN 44s, 91/30s etc and had a very good LE "JC" last September. Batesville MS had two original LE #4s last July, priced at $200 and $300. The really nice Savage for $200 was a "carry-in".
    I never made an offer for the Savage because the seller had forgotten how to remove the bolt, as I was already going by him towards a cash machine to buy the other LE.

    Imagine the shipping costs you will save:), and the simple fact that You will get to first inspect :cool: the items. Bring a good flashlight, because some buildings are a bit gloomy for inspecting bores/rifling.
    The show last weekend in Southaven had an excellent Savage LE #4 (listed a bit high: $375), very good bent bolt Yugo Mauser ($150) and a guy had a really good FN FAL on his shoulder (very bright bore), wanted $700. I have his cell phone #. He lives in Batesville.

    Some of the best deals are guns carried by people, but some don't show up until afternoon. On the other hand, my experienced buddies always show up when the doors open and have found very nice Polish MN 44s etc before others discover them on, or hidden behind/under tables.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  11. gandog56

    gandog56 New Member

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    Big gun show in Mobile, AL. at the end of the month. Too bad I'm just down here at my Mom's house in Mobile for a week.
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Brief note for the folks wondering what a C&R is-

    A DEALER holds an 01 FFL. But there is a separate FFl available to COLLECTORS. Known as an 03 C&R FFL, it is a license to collect, not to engage in the business of buying/selling guns. It is a simple application, $30 for 3 years.

    Curio & Relic firearms are those that are 50 years old, or older- OR are on the list published by the ATF- like ALL Winchester Mdl 88s, ALL colt Woodsman pistols, etc.

    Advantages- I like M1 carbines, Find a dealer in Washington state with a carbine I like, we agree on price. I send him payment, and a COPY of my license signed in ink. He puts carbine in the mail to me. I get carbine, and scramble to hide it before my "significant other" finds it. NO TRANSFER FEE.

    OR- I am traveling out of state on business, and find there is a gunshow in Podunk Corners (where I am staying) I wander over, and there is the cutest little Colt .32 auto you have ever seen- about a 1940 model from the serial number. Price is right, but you cannot buy a handgun except in your home state. But I can. All I need is my license, money, and my ID. No form 4473, no background check, no waiting.

    SOME states do place restrictions on a C&R- CA, MD, NY. But I try to avoid them, and do not live there. Most fun an old man can have for $30.
     
  13. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    C3,

    Thank you for the explanation on the C&R license that is good information to have if you collect.
     
  14. Mack Bolan

    Mack Bolan New Member

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    just got my C&R application from the atf today....is it just the one long, 3pg green form and thats it?

    reason i ask is because i also had some ffl forms sent with it to see if a particular business address i have will qualify and it isn't exactly clear if any of these also pertain to the C&R form...

    thought i'd ask here before i call the atf to find out.
     
  15. gandog56

    gandog56 New Member

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    A C&R does not need a business address. Just send the one part to ATF, and the other part to your local head of law enforcement.
     
  16. will56

    will56 New Member

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    Curio and Relic.
     
  17. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    If you are getting into Collecting Military arm, be careful. There are fakes out there. Here is a pic of an M95 Styer carbine. The rifle was pristine, but someone decided to stamp a Waffenamp on it and some cold blue in hopes of selling it as a "rare" Nazi rifle. The rifle was pristine, but ruined by a fraud.
    The owner gave me permission to use this pic.
    [​IMG]
    There are many fake "death head" K 98's.
    Mitchells Mausers are another group that scrubs the #'s off arms and refinishes and restamps them. They have 0 collectors value. They had an ad a while back calling M48's original Nazi rifles. The 48 is for 1948 Yugoslavian and the rifles are intermediate action Mausers, not full length as the K98 is. Not to mention, WW2 was long over.
    If you are not sure about a rifle, ask.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  18. mag318

    mag318 Member

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    An 03 C&R license is a great thing to have for collectors. The list of C&R firearms is ever expanding to include guns less than 50 years old like 2'nd generation Colt Single Actions and Woodsman type semi autos. But beware, for once you have your C&R be prepared to start spending more and more money. I like WWII German rifles and wanted a K98, here's what I ended up with as a result of my C&R.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Mack Bolan

    Mack Bolan New Member

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    ^^^^um...we must have the same blood type....type "c" collector

    Thanks for the warning ;) and do you get time to shoot all those?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  20. mag318

    mag318 Member

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    Mack, I use to live in Cook county, as soon as I moved to western Illinois one of the first things I did was to obtain a C&R.