Closing the Collapse Gap

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by Bigcountry02, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. Bigcountry02

    Bigcountry02 Coffee! If your not shaking, you need another cup Supporter

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  2. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Thanks for that - very, very interesting. Pages 12, 13 and 15 are pretty obvious and of concern to me and others who are trying to become more self-sufficient. It's hard enough to do when times are relatively good. It will be quite a challenge when times are bad.
     

  3. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    I don’t know if we were importing “. . . 65% of our oil & a lot of natural gas . . .” energy in 2006. In 2011 we were down to importing 45% or 11.9 million of barrels a day (Mb/d), but that is offset by our exporting 2.9 Mb/d a day in distillates. If my math is correct (NOT really a safe presumption) that means our oil imports are actually around 33%. And then I don’t know how much of our oil imports, are actually paid for because of the value added income from the distillate exports.

    Outside of the above, and while I’m not as familiar with the details of the Soviet collapse, his observation of the US situation is more or less the same as mine, and I hold the same conclusion. Bottom line? Exit the system. Leave the casino. Even if there isn’t an economic collapse, abrupt or drawn out, you’ll be better off, at least if freedom to live the way you want is what you want.

    Now ‘no man is an island’, etc., and it would be extraordinarily time consuming to attempt to provide everything you need for yourself, by yourself. So some amount of community is needed. And this is the genesis of my interest and efforts toward increased community self-sufficiency.
     
  4. TLuker

    TLuker Active Member

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    That was very interesting. It's always nice to here a different perspective on things and the author, being from Russia, had a very different perspective. However, I have to disagree with a couple of his observations.

    Yes we are dependent on cars and oil for transportation rather than public transportation, but that is due to American ingenuity and free markets. Russia never had a Henry Ford and so Russia never had cheap cars and energy available to the masses. I'm not sure I would call our markets free today but we still have some pretty innovative people (like the guys from Google).

    Americans are also more educated and literate than he gives us credit for. We might still be stupid as a whole but we can read, even if we are reading the Enquirer (or something equally stupid).

    Overall though he was right about us being less prepared for a collapse, and that all empires collapse at some point. We're also not looking very good right now. As a whole we are far to dependent on our shaky economic system. For that reason I'm with Vincine on "Leave the casino". That really is a great analogy of what we've become as a nation.

    I'm not working toward increased community self-sufficiency, but I am working towards family self-sufficiency and personal self-sufficiency. The more I can do for myself the more freedom I have. There's also a personal sense of achievement in being able to produce what you need, and want. :)
     
  5. jyo

    jyo New Member

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    Let's face it---the Russians are more prepared for economic collapse then us simply because they are used to a lot more hardships than even the poorest Americans---we generally have a much higher standard of living then they do and a lot more freedoms. That said, because of our freedoms, we are "free" to be abused by our banking system, credit card companies, oil producers, housing markets, stock markets, etc.
    I still vote for living in the USA!
     
  6. TrueNorth

    TrueNorth New Member

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    Hey Bigcountry02,

    first off - I love your photo. Please introduce me to her next time we meet! (If ever we do :) )

    Interesting topic, and pov. What do you think that America needs to do to mitigate these risks as a nation? I personally believe that budget control is required both at the federal level - and the personal level. That alone would help lower the trade deficit, avoid major banking fluctuations, and stabilize the economy - albeit at a rate of growth lower than I think most people are used to. (Life can't be growing at a fast pace forever when that growth is funded by debt).

    As far as oil/energy consumption is concerned America uses far more than it produces, but it's greatest ally (Canada of course) has the largest oil reserves of the free world ( by which I mean outside of the Middle East). It would be a good idea to facilitate trade with canada and continue to push for economic integration with your neighbor and in so doing reduce your import from "unsafe sources". Less dependence on unstable nations, replaced by cooperation with your allies. Also it would stop sending money to people who then send it to terrorists... just saying.

    So, debt control (not by taces but by reduced spending) at the Federal, State and personal household levels, nd increased cooperation with your allies. A social re-engineering to stop buying from hostile nations, and buy more conservatively, would prevent a collapse.

    After that, perhaps a school program that forces all american school children to learn certain skills - farming, marksmanship, tradeskills, first aid - proper financial planning - these could be brought into the public school system to teach people the skills required to survive that way the entire society is built on the skills necessary to live, in addtion to the skills to prosper in a modern society (reading, writing, math, science etc.) that are already taught.

    FYI Canada needs to do the same, generally. We might have less debt, less trade with China and virtually no import of mid-east oil, but we still have debt, trade deficit, and a loss of usable skills being taught in schools.
     
  7. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Within the last year or two I read a lot of Canada's wealth was based in U.S. dollars and U.S. securities. So while you guys may be doing things right, if a big percentage of your wealth is tied up in U.S. holdings - and we are NOT doing things right - then you could still find your economy circling the drain. Hopefully, Canada has modified its holdings strategy.
     
  8. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't really talk about if the US collapse would/will collapse most other countries. Why does everyone know its coming but no one in the media will even mention it?
     
  9. Bigcountry02

    Bigcountry02 Coffee! If your not shaking, you need another cup Supporter

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    Thanks!

    Found that from Germany Munich beerfest time. I have some older pics when I stationed in Germany.

    The document was from 2006, passing some information from what others did a comparison.

    Biggest issue is the economy, I am not just saying United States; but, more on the global scale. Companies are scaling back both in indsutry and in people.

    The spending and waste has gotten way out of hand. It is not just US; but, the world has become a throw-away society.

    Education, people are taught memorization techniques; instead, of understanding and applying what is learned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  10. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Digression

    It's hard to play sports or do dance well if you're not an athlete. It's hard to be a musician or singer if you're tone deaf. It's hard to be a painter if you're color blind.

    For many, critical thinking is harder to learn, or at least practice, and for those people, I think maybe it is harder to teach, especially when context isn't fully understood by the teacher. (Is five coma's in one sentence allowed?) Memorization is easier to measure.

    Most of the world still prefers to live with blind faith over the Scientific Method, Harvard Business Management, Nursing Process, or whatever you want to call it. It's not possible to personally test everything. Faith, of whatever kind, and allows one to get on with their life.
     
  11. TLuker

    TLuker Active Member

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    Just my personal belief here, but I think the overwhelming majority of people are capable of critical thinking? Unfortunately our culture inhibits critical thinking.

    The first thing required for critical thinking is humility. You have to actually admit you don't know something before you can question it. Humility isn't exactly valued in our society. You're probably going to be more successful being arrogant than humble in our society? When was the last time you heard a politician say "I just don't know?"

    Next you need curiosity for critical thinking. Curiosity isn't exactly promoted either. We're all born curios but we loose that pretty quickly? I think our school system has a lot to do with that.

    Finally, there's just no need in a lot of people thinking critically. Most people go to work, pay the bills, and try to support a family with what little money is left. Thinking too much about things would probably be depressing? They're still going to be up to their neck in debt with no way out no matter how much they think about things. :confused:

    Just my .02
     
  12. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Oh I wish that were true, but from what I see and in my personal experience; Critical thinking is trumped by emotionalism and identity politics. So mostly I'm afraid you're right.

    Far and away most all the seniors I service are absolutely against socialism! Absolutely! Even as they accept the ‘Meals on Wheels’, live in the HUD subsidized housing, use the subsidized public transportation, Medicare and prescription drug plans. Etc.

    But they’re Republicans! Always were and always will be. It is part and parcel of who they are and to their mind, voting for anybody else is just plain wrong.

    For some reason, most that accept help with their heating costs and/or are on dialysis seem to understand, not that they like it much.

    (All in all, the above is cheaper for the rest of us than paying the 24/7 costs of their living in a seniors' facility. If the difference between their living in a nursing home at $70k-$100k per year and living in their own home, is the price of a hot, well balanced meal daily, and a tank of fuel oil once a year, the math is easy.)

    My experience is that hardly anybody looks at the pros & cons of an issue. They just take their party’s position based on its abstract ideology because it provides them with an identity, not because they checked the actual price performance ratio. They believe what they’re told to believe. Critical thinking is out to lunch.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  13. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    Short and not so sweet.......

    Like the man said........ Hope for the Best but Prepare for the worst......For the worse is yet to come.......:(
     
  14. TLuker

    TLuker Active Member

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    I was trying to think of something optimistic to say, but I can't. Politics has become an us v. them death match. To conceded a point to the other side is viewed as treason even if the other side is right about something. And the worst things get the more people will dig in and abandon reason. I guess that's just another reason to be prepared for whatever?
     
  15. dteed4094

    dteed4094 New Member

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    The easiest way a country can increase it's productivity and decrease it's dependancy on foreign products is not to be more efficient but to eliminate or reduce its population or the part of the population that depends on the more productive to pay their way. Scary, but this country would have remove it's non producers. Instead, we subsidize them, feed them and reinforce their lack of responsibility to this society and their own support.
     
  16. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And there you have the essence of Obamacare. The seniors that paid their way and are retired are a burden now. The government has stolen and spent their "secure" retirement fund. By restricting and denying medical service to them we can kill them off and fix Social Security and Medicare. Of course the government is stealing the money from Medicare to pay for services to illegal aliens who the government will fast track to citizenship so they can become good little Democrats. It was not enough that the government stole the Social Security Trust Fund and are stealing the money from Medicare, they now want the money that everyone has put aside in 401k and IRA accounts. I am really surprised they dont give the death penalty to thieves to eliminate the competition.:mad: It would also lower prison costs.