Civility Works Both Ways

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Cnon, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I don't know if I have, or even need,

    "the right to feel safe". I do, however, live in a neighborhood

    where EVERYBODY OWNS GUNS.

    ZERO CRIME RATE ASIDE, I feel safer than

    in my mother's womb.


    Suck on that, Chicago-boy.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014

  2. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    well said.
     
  3. DrFootball

    DrFootball disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED... Lifetime Supporter

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    A great organization. I urge all of you to consider a membership. JPFO's Charlie Heller was our very first Guest on the Podcast. I have been a member ever since...


    Sent from my iPad using Firearms Talk
     
  4. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Good take on the Starbucks fiasco, a position I agree with. Never heard of JPFO before; glad to hear of them now.
     
  5. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Standing righteous instead indignant is most effective. I learned a long time ago that its easy to make enemies where there were none before if were not more careful at delivering the message than they are at killing the messenger! I never cower from the subject of 2A but I wont beat anyone to death with it either. Starbucks danced and it was perceived by sides as a challenge. One must be careful when they enter the ring, you never know what will happen, this time Starbucks sided towards those that probably spend the most money in their stores and its probably not those of us that spend more time in the woods, fields and streams than internet cafe's with Mocha Choka Latte's talking about fab fashions!

    The Libs offend me daily (I work in a liberal arts university), I wont give them the satisfaction of being able to say I offend them for any good reason. The only way to beat down bad is to be better than bad at doing right and thats not all that tough. And as a wise person onced said, "Never argue with an Idiot, Nobody will know which one of you is the Idiot!"...
     
  6. WonderingMind

    WonderingMind New Member

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    Courtesy and civility are sorely lacking in toady's America. I personally think that it really got bad when the Progressive habit of shouting down dissenting opinion and speech that dose not support their agenda became common and unremarked upon. I am going to be turning 40 this year and I can remember a time when a person would be face censure and would be ignored if they continually shouted down opposition opinions. Now however, it is simply "The way it is done". There is no winning a debate with a Progressive, there is only surviving it because they can't and won't debate on the facts unless they have manipulated the "facts" into something that supports their flawed world view.

    They (Progressives) will lie, they will cheat and they will steal. So for us who are the silent majority, society has reached a point where it is no longer possible to hold a civil discourse with our Glorious Progressive Leaders or their stooges. That said, we have no choice but to continue to proceed in a polite and civil manner at all times. Hopefully, we can sway a few of the folks from the center to our side by being the sort of folks that the Founders would have approved of.
     
  7. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    I do think we can help ourselves by NOT falling prey to their ways. We should not refer to an AR15 as an assault weapon but a sporting rifle. Their name for this weapon carries a very negative connotation and makes it easy to dislike for anyone "middle-of-the-road" that is still trying to decide whether guns and supporting the 2A are good or bad.

    We won't win at their game. We must play our own. I agree with all said above.
     
  8. Mason609

    Mason609 Active Member

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    We've been playing our own game, and it's not working.

    We need to play theirs, but with a few changes.

    Remember the "win the hearts and minds" of the Iraqis? Well, that's what we need to do. We need to win over those in the center that are on the ropes. We need to affect them on an emotional level, but supported with factual evidence. The antis will not be able to counter it.
     
  9. 1911love

    1911love New Member

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    The antis have been countering it by controlling the MSM. Way more people get their news from the networks vs people like us that use the internet and forums in addition to the networks. Without the MSM there is no way for the facts to effectively reach the masses IMO.

    Every chance I get I spread the facts to the fence sitters, but the MSM can reach many more people in 5 minutes than I can in a whole year. We really need a way to overcome this.
     
  10. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Progressives feel they own the high ground because whats new must be better. Afterall, it must be whats old that needs fixing right? I stay away from deep descriptivism about specifics of firearms when Im talking to a Libterd. They think all guns are bad no matter what you say and take it to the next level by trying to differentiate some from others based on what they have seen in War Movies! DO not try to confuse them with the facts, they know about what they say, Rambo did it, so can JQ Public Gunowner, we must stop that before it happens again!

    Dont get me wrong, I work in a Liberal Arts U, Ive tried to educate brilliant nincompoops about the very few actual differences between Joe Biteme's Double Barrel one size fits all safe firearms and the "war machine" guns they see in their heads every-time they see a black plastic hand guard. Dont bother, they havent got enough time or interest to care or learn about that which they love to hate, besides, they need things to rally against, thats what they do. Talk about everything they think thats bad and tell others to fix that for them!
     
  11. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    Re the Starbucks situation: Starbucks intended to do what was/is right by gun owners/toters when they publically stated that it was OK to carry while enjoying a cup of joe in their shops. But there were some (many) immature people who thought that was an invitation to go struttin' around in their shops playin' "fastest gun in the West", or "GI Joe, the occupyin' force", thus intimidating the regular customers who weren't interested in a bunch of idiots playing superhero. For those with good sense who wish to carry in a reasonable manner like they have good sense, the fringe group has ruined it via the obviously necessary reaction by the Starbucks management.
    Maybe some of those clowns could have acted like or pretended to be adults.
    The whole thing reminds me of the old oriental martial arts movies of the '70s. The people who attended them consisted of two groups of people: Normal people who went there to see a movie, and the idiots who wanted to fantasize about being some ninja hero. The would-be heroes ruined it for everybody else by strutting around with stupid "Rambo" scowls on their faces, intentionally bumping into other people, grinding their 2 knuckles into the walls, pretending to be magic superstars. Those movies finally went the way of all bad ideas because the theaters quit showing them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  12. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    QFT brother.

    IOW, a handful of Wyatt Earp Wannabes screwed it up for the rest of us once again. This really proves the old adage that one "Oh Sh!t' erases 1,000 "Attaboys"s.

    What hits the news on the MSM is 99% of the time the negative side of our groups actions as a whole, simply because a shooting or an armed robbery is perceived as being able to hook the viewer better than a 15 YO boy stopping a home invasion with his dad's AR. Which will, of course be called an "Assault Rifle", not a MSR which it truly is. Add to this the amount of videos on You Tube of the Azz hats fighting with the LEOs who respond to a "Man with a GUN!" call, and any supported of the 2A will wind up seen by many as the bad guy.

    What we also never see in the news is this. Gun ownership is up, and it grows bigger everyday. Many of those undecideds are now picking sides, and sevral of them are joining the NRA thanks to the little special offer papers that come with their nice, shiny, new guns or their boxes of ammo.

    All is not lost. A large part of thee Anti-Unsafe Act protesters from my area of NY (Won't be fully in Erie until the summer) are not even gun owners. Many who were on the fence before this Unconstitutional attack on our rights (It is a slap in the face on several provisions of that sacred document, not just the 2A) have now become gun owners and 2A supporters. The progressive Sh!t slinging is starting to backfire on them.

    Keep putting the right image forward folks. the tide is starting to turn.
     
  13. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see some here are starting to come around!!!:)
    I have been saying all along that we MUST control the narrative to make a difference. The progressives have been controlling it far to long, with good results. That is why I keep harping on those who insist on using 'their' terms like 'assault weapons' (semi-automatic), 'gun control' (anti-gun laws/legislation), and 'shooter' (murderer)! And so on. They do it in ALL the areas they discuss. We must remain :cool: when discussing the RTKABA's with those who are still 'on the fence' but be hard core with the progressives and not give even a fraction of an inch in their direction.:mad:
     
  14. Eagle1803

    Eagle1803 New Member

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    All in all said, you should have the right to strap it on( a gun and holster that is) and not be harassed, a few bad apples shouldn't stop this. this is how our 2A rights get infringed.
     
  15. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The mall where I shop every once in a while, was not bothered by guns until a small handful of "macho cowboy" types started open carrying there.

    After a bunch of complaints from customers and merchants, they posted a big "NO FIREARMS" sign. They still make no effort to enforce this policy against concealed carriers, but they will call the police and have you thrown out if you open carry.

    Another public relations disaster inflicted on us by the " in your face wannabes.":(
     
  16. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    Yep. It's hard to relate good sense and maturity with strutting around showing off like that. People in general would regard a mall cowboy to be mentally defective. Instead of thinking the turkey is "cool", they'd regard him with contempt.
     
  17. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have seen quite a bit of that traveling through other states, but not so much in the area of NY that I am moving out of. Part of that has to do with the fact that at some point in the past NY decided that the only lawful way to carry is concealed. The only times I have seen folks OCing is during time afield, while hunting, in acouple of shops i frequent, (*) and at the range.

    The downside is that if you even print you can get charged with DTP in this state. As I try to explain to the folks that scream out it IS MY RIGHT!, I do not disagree with them. I just happen to think there is a time and a place for OC. At a mall, 2 days after some nut job went on a rampage and killed 3 while wounding 25 is not the time and place. You, and the rest of the area's carrying owners, would be better served if you CC instead.

    Also, when you are asked to leave or questioned by LE, don't be a d!ck about it. Put yourself in the shoes of the soccer mom who called it in. If you were not carrying and you saw a "Guy with a GUN!" wouldn't you call LE and try to GTFO with your family as fast as you could? i know my answer to that question is yes even if I am carrying. If I see a SWAT wannabe wandering around where je has no business carrying that rifle, or with 2 glocks in drop holsters my first reflex is get get me and mine out of the potential line of fire. that is priority one right there. Is it likely that he is harmless? Yes. If I do not know him, do I know this to be a fact? No.

    It's mostly about timing, but it is also about perspective. If we can find a way to bring the public perception of the American gun owner back to what it was in the 50s that would be a dream come true for most of us. Sadly, I don't see us ever getting that back again.

    * The most memorable time was when i went to pick up a parts order at the local Harley dealership during our firearms deer season, and one of the countermen had a Ruger Super Blackhawk in a crossdraw rig behind the counter. It was a 7 mile drive to the dealership from his house, and a 1 mile walk through the woods, so he decided to strap on the Blackhawk and did some hunting on his walk to work that morning. Stopped back in a couple days later to pick up points for a 49 Panhead, and the deer (good sized 8 point) he shot on the way in was hanging from one of the trees behind the shop. On the way out I saw his wife and daughter out there loading it into the truck to take it home to process it. Wish I had had a boss like that back when I was working.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  18. Cnon

    Cnon Member

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  19. AIKIJUTSU

    AIKIJUTSU New Member

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    At the very least the turkey should have been arrested for disorderly conduct. I don't know what it takes for a charge of brandishing, but I think that comes close. And anybody who does that has mental issues, too.