Citizen resistance is a joke

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by hiwall, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    Ever think what would happen if the Government turned evil. The founding fathers predicted it and gave us the second amendment. But in today's world any resistance would be a joke. Wouldn't even need the military just the cops could stop any resistance by the citizens. Where there is large populations there is little armament. In rural areas there are arms but little population. It would be easy for them to stop all communications, then it would be hard to organize a resistance. They could have their finger on the big electric switch and flick it off for a day and most people would then toe the line. Oh there would be pockets of resistance but I don't think it would be hard to for them to squash them. Sure hope it never happens because John Q. Public would be screwed.:(
     
  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Don't think so! There would be a gun behind every tree! And there are other ways of taking care of tyranny! We would have some surprises for them.
    Maybe the liberal socialist pansies in the city! But not in the country. What they might not realize is a lot of the second amendment defenders were and or are law enforcement and military ourselves. "COME GET IT!" ;) They will not be dealing with school boys, politicians or book scholars. We have fought for our freedom and rights in the past! So nothing new for us to defend our constitution and future rights for ourselves and or our families.

    03
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Have to disagree with you OP.

    By stopping communications you would have to physically disband every single form of electronic communication. Not "jam" or turn the power off, but physically blow them up or burn them to the ground.

    Existing power/phone/cable and fiber lines can ALL be used to transmit and receive data if you happen to know what you are doing. Myself and several members of this forum happen to be within that category.

    Next you have what Sniper03 is talking about above. Just because there are "a lot of people and few guns" doesn't mean it would be a cake walk.

    And few people with a lot of guns, as in rural areas, leads you as an attempted occupier to cover ground that the natives know much better than you do. See a little conflict in S.E. Asia and specifically a historical disaster called Dien Bien Phu. :cool:

    Also you have to consider that a given percentage of police, national guard and military folks are NOT going to blindly follow along and take up arms against their neighbors. And, every member that does has family or friends SOMEWHERE that another soldier will be taking up arms against, so you can't extrapolate the moral impact of that little mindf**k.

    The occupying forces that you discribe might have an initial surge of momentum until word got out, but then everyone in a uniform would be a target just waiting for a well placed bullet.

    JD
     
  4. rodent.22

    rodent.22 New Member

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    How many well educated, 2nd Amendment exposed,military and police members would fire on their own fellow citizens?
     
  5. jordan89

    jordan89 New Member

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    The real question is how many well educated citizens are there? Judging by the state of this country we are the minority.
     
  6. jon1992d

    jon1992d New Member

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    We have fought back before against the worlds greatest military at the time with nothing more than farmers and there sons and ill see this country burn before i let them take what our founding fathers fought so hard for us to have.
     
  7. Jeepergeo

    Jeepergeo New Member

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    When it comes to police, the answer is too many. Who is the greatest restriction to concealed carry? The courts? The legislature? Your local chief or sheriff? That's an easy question. Why would do chiefs and sheriffs restrict a law abiding citizen's rights so often yet themselves would never go unprotected? They have a choice, but they abuse it.

    Regarding military...I think most of them would do the right thing.
     
  8. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    "To be or not to be," is a Shakespearean question that probably won't be entertained under the weight of an 'order.'
    And with that in mind my bet is that they will fire on their own citizens only because the terminology will be
    changed to assuage any guilt that might come of it; (i.e.) citizens to terrorists.
     
  9. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    I don't think there can be any doubt as to the founder's intent with the second amendment? But rising up against "tyranny" is not anything to be taken likely. We tried that during the War of Northern Aggression, and more Americans were killed in that war than all others combined. A war against "tyranny" would be a civil war and it would be an absolute mess just like all civil wars.

    The government could potentially be defeated, but I don't know that anything would be left afterwards other than a bombed out third world country? And what would replace this government? Just something to think about.
     
  10. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Ultimately this is our security against governmental tyranny today, not the 2A.

    However I really don’t think it will go down that way. What I believe will happen is that as the government becomes less and less effective at providing the usual services, communities will develop and grow their own capacity based on their particular needs. Informally at first, and then it will be organized. People will become responsible to their friends and neighbors, again.

    You are beginning to see this with the development of farmer’s markets & the localvore movement, local crafts and community utilities and services, credit unions, etc. There are several communities that have their own local currency. At some point, maybe when energy costs become prohibitive or when enough people are managing to provide enough of their basic needs faster, better & cheaper without the traditional job (albeit because there aren’t any jobs and they have no choice), they may realize they don’t need the traditional job paid in US dollars. No job = no income = no paycheck = no records = no taxes.

    It’s when this happens that the Federal government will, if not collapse, shrink to a shadow of itself. It’s less a question of citizen resistance than it is a question of obsolescence. It may take a generation or two.

    At least I hope this is the way the economic transition transpires. The alternative is a frightening nightmare.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  11. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    I refer you to New Orleans pre Katrina when they were confiscating firearms. Draw your own conclusion, but I believe that is a sign of things to come.
     
  12. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Vincine, I hope your right. A gradual fading into obsolescence I think is a far better alternative.

    unfortunately, I don't think it will work out that way. We will end up moving toward a full on socialist government before they allow themselves to become obsolete by not providing services.

    And then one day someone in government will have to point out, hey, we can't give you any more because we've wrecked this country so terribly that there is nothing left. By the way, we'll be taking your guns, so that you can't kill anyone when we send you to the work camps. You have to go to the work camps because everyone has to do their part in rebuilding our country. What am I doing? I had to make the tough decision to intern you in the work camp, and send your wife and daughter to the brothel. They have to earn their way too. -says the future congressman.
     
  13. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    IF it turned evil? What the hell do we have right now?!

    110% disagree. I know many people who are better armed and far better trained than cops. As for the military, they tend to take their oaths seriously and there would definitely be a split of those who would follow unlawful orders and others who would turn their weapons on their superiors who issued such orders.

    What the civilian populace lacks in military tech we make up in numbers. How is it Muqtada al Sadr and his band of sheet-heads were such a thorn in our military's side for so long? Do you think Americans would be less determined that those guys?

    All that said, I sure don't want to test this because no matter who wins, we'd all lose big-time.
     
  14. fmj

    fmj New Member

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    The wife and I were having a discussion similar to this the other evening.

    Its my opinion the handmaidens of the govt (LEO) will follow every unlawful order given them without hesitation. That includes shooting their own family. The $$ paid out and the cushy retirements keep them in line! They will never disobey their master because they damn well know they cannot make the kind of $$ or the benefits in the "real world". There is NO arguing Govt jobs pay 2 and 3 times more than private sector jobs! The trend the past 20 years have been steep increases in Govt salaries and a stagnation or even decline in private sector wages.

    As to the OP....there are WAY many more guns in the cities than you give credit. Mayhaps not NYC or CHI or some of the other left coast urban areas...but you come off the coasts you will find some SERIOUS armorment in the cities!

    But yeah, when/if civil war comes about and blood runs freely in American streets. We ALL lose. And what Govt. takes the place of this one. History tells us dictatorships always follow democracies.
     
  15. tellmaster207

    tellmaster207 New Member

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    It's true any of the cities & states with communist gun laws are still very well armed. The law abiding citizens hide what they have very well. They have learned this over the generations for there own safety.
    As far as the criminal organizations on the east & west coast go. They are very well organized. They have loose leadership that can be replaced for decades & not skip a beat. They have more cash than most Corporations can fathom. Needless to say there not to worried about breaking the firearms act of '68 or any other anti 2a restriction.
    Communist gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens.

    Sent from my iPhone using FirearmsTalk
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    our current system run by our constitution. our government has not been governing inside the constitution for over 100 years or more. thats the root cause of our current difficulties.

    we dont need to scrap our system we just need a reset to an actual constitutional government that is only in session a few weeks out of the year as it was intended to run.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    No surprise, I agree with bkt here. Not that our thin blue line is made up of muppets, but I know a ton of professional and recreational shooters who are NOT law enforcement by profession. If I had to pick someone to be shooting AT me, I would opt for the $45K/year cop who is in it for the promotion and not fighting to save his families' hard earned life style. :cool:

    Guerilla warfare. ANY student of historical, military combat will tell you there is NEVER a safe zone when this is a factor.

    I could take a "student" like bkt or his group of NY Regulars and teach them to shoot, at distance, in a few chalkboards and a couple of range days, (not that they can't do it now).

    Factor 50, 100, 1,000 or 10,000 people with firearms training holding covert, late at night, training on ballistics/wind/bullet arc/POA/POI and give them HALF a chance at reclaiming territory.

    You think Central America is a hot zone right now. Try taking over W. Texas, Oklahoma or Tennessee. :eek:



    I completely disagree and I have to say if the two of you were having a discussion and this was the point of agreement, you need to get out more.

    YOU may not like your neighbor and want to see him in chains. YOU may not like your Mayor, Police Chief, Fire Marshall, etc and want to see them on the gallows.

    That doesn't mean that everyone YOU know feels the same way. You could end up on the stake just as easily when you pick the wrong person to just blindly "judge".

    You think cops/LEO/SWAT/Nationa Guard are somehow going to just IGNORE the fact that while they are doing illegal act "X" in this county, there isn't someone else doing illegal "X" in their hometown, their neighborhood or THEIR VERY FAMILIES' HOUSE?!?!?

    It's ridiculous to assume that just because someone wears a badge, they are going to tow the line when it comes to putting weapons on American Citizens.

    I happen to have shared beers with the leader of the Pierce County SWAT team, and I can assure you, "Eric - The Hammer" is no sooner going to raise his customized M4 against me than the Man in the Moon. :rolleyes:

    Get out more and spend some time with LEO in your area. Buy them a beer where they hang out. Buy them lunch where they like to go and talk to them.

    They are HUMANS just like us and they ALL have families and concerns besides a simple payday when it comes to chips down.

    YMMV - But if it does, you need to move!

    JD
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  18. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    If the economy’s good there’s not going to be a problem, but I don’t think the economy’s good. It’s not good now and is going to get worse.

    Either:
    They’ll be laid off and won’t have the job or;
    The checks will bounce because there isn’t any money or;
    The money’s no good because the government monetized the debt and we’re into inflation or hyperinflation.

    If they’re as mercenary as you think they are, and they’re not getting paid, I don’t think they’ll ‘Obey their Master’.

    BUT I don't think they're mercenary. I know ours aren't! They're not going to fire on us no matter how much they’d get paid. Not only would they’d take their badge off first, they'd try keep me from getting hit by a bullet too.
    (I'd like to think I would do the same for them.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  19. Dzscubie

    Dzscubie New Member

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    Great day in the morning… what drugs are you on? Because if you’re not on drugs your just a moron.


    Scubie
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Aw Sh*T!

    Just when you all thought this was a thread without LEO involvement Scubie comes along. :rolleyes:

    Scubie, and is his MOST AWESOME wife Glasshart, are BOTH police officers/Federal Officers in charge of a VAST range of our South and Southwest Border.

    Yeah. They can see the infamous "wall" from their front porch. These fine, upstanding, blue collar, hardcore folks are at it EVERY-F**KING-DAY against the forces of Mexican Evil that you all think is a secondary threat.

    Anyone ever heard of MS-13? Los Zetas? The Mexican Mafia??

    Scubie and Glass are on the FRONT LINE against these guys 24/7/366 (Yeah - Leap Year Too).

    So for future reference, if you want to talk SHI*ITE about what LEO's would, or would NOT, do you should take a minute and check the tightness of your tinfoil before hitting "Reply"

    I'm just a weaponsmith "shoprat" who has seen a few things. Even if I knew 10x what I know now, I would still take direction from Scubie or Glass in a SHTF situation because there is a very broad line between "studied it" and "been there".

    YMMV - But I kind of doubt it.

    JD