"Child endangerment" question...

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by UrbanNinja, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Today I decided to teach my 7 year old niece how to shoot, using a "Red Rider" BB gun. I took all safety precautions and even went beyond a bit with safety. Before she even was allowed to fire her first shot, I went over using the safety switch, always leaving the muzzle pointed down range, using her safety equipment.. etc..

    Here is where the "endangerment" comes in. After her lesson, I wanted to take a picture of her because she was very proud and wanted to show her mother (my sister). So I had her pose while holding the BB rifle wearing her safety glasses and even hearing protection (no need for them but I want her used to the idea of wearing them for future lessons when she graduates to the Cricket .22lr), the rifle was facing up toward the ceiling and you can clearly see the safety in the "on" position and her finger is nowhere near the trigger. I posted the picture to my sisters Facebook page. Of course theres always that one D-bag that thinks they know better (in this case it is my cousin). He replied to the posting saying "you need to remove this posting or else face child endangerment charges." I say B.S.

    He currently works as a social worker for troubled teens. Do you think he is speaking any truth about this situation? I cannot see any legal issues with this. Men have taught their children the use of weapons for hundreds or even thousands of years. Is he really trying to tell me that the Boy Scouts of America have been "endangering" our youth since 1910?

    Please, any input would be appreciated.
     
  2. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I see nothing wrong with what you have done. In fact I aplaud you for teaching safety. But on the other hand, I am always amazed at the stupidity of our government and the people that run it.
     

  3. blucoondawg

    blucoondawg New Member

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    I would tell him to go @$%! himself and tell him to bring on the charges if he thinks he can make them fly, I would also see to it that he isn't included in any family functions I am attending for fear he may open his mouth and find it filled with my fist. I don't believe his comment is truthful, if this were the case thousands of people would be brought up on charges every year, its a bb gun for christ's sake, kids not much older than her are allowed to hunt with highpowered rifles or shotguns. Maybe the douchebag would rather you just avoid guns completely until she is legal hunting age then throw her a 12 gauge and a box of slugs and say "here figure it out on your own", THAT would be child endangerment. The guy is an asshat.
     
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep. asshat_by_thundercake.jpg

    Teaching one of your children (or, with permission of a parent, someone else's child) the safe use of an air rifle does not constitute child endangerment in any setting I have seen.

    Only because I dislike public pissing matches unless they are REALLY necessary, I would advise said asshat privately that he needs to cease attempting to present his personal values as departmental policy, or face charges of abuse of office. Criminal charges.

    In the state of Pennsylvania, at age 11 the child can enroll in the PA Hunter Safety Course, and at age 12 hunt with a REAL firearm. See link: http://www.ehow.com/about_6308420_pennsylvania-hunters-safety-courses.html
     
  5. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Thank you all for the responses. I am glad to see some that feel I have not wronged. Of course I also don't believe we have any nutjob anti-gun libs here either. I am sure there is some out there that would love to rip me apart.

    c3, thanks for the link.
     
  6. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I would have not posted that picture on Facebook just to avoid exactly what happened to you. I would have texted the picture to my sister. I like to avoid confrontation at any cost. I'm just a timid rabbit. :eek:
     
  7. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    I would have preferred to send in a text. Unfortunately my sister has yet to upgrade to a phone with picture receiving capabilities. She still has some scrappy old prepaid phone that doesn't allow media transfer. My Facebook profile is secured to he visible by my friends only and, with only 37 friends, every one of them is a close friend or relative, I never thought this would have been a problem. Not to mention, this cousin of mine signs in to his account maybe once every sixmonths. I never expected anything from him. Everyone that knows me also know my passion for firearms. They all also accept it without criticism.

    This guy was once an amazing minor league baseball player that was drafted by the Philadelphia Phillies, he met some junkie, began smoking crack, living in the streets, robbing,stealing,etc.. "got his life together", went back to college and received an associates degree, and now he is Mister high and mighty, I'm better than you,my crap doesn't stink, anti-everything douche bag.
     
  8. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 New Member

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  9. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Ask your cousin if he intends to file charges based on the picture if you leave the picture up. Try to get this in writing (like via email). If he says yes, consult with an attorney and see what you can do.

    No way, no how is teaching a 7-year-old how to fire a bb gun by observing proper safety rules "endangerment". But being accused of putting a child in harm's way these days is a lot like being accused of witchcraft 350 years ago - it's up to you to prove you're innocent. What you want to make sure of is that your sister doesn't get her child taken away over this while it gets sorted out.
     
  10. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    I’m missing something.

    Is your cousin stating he will file endangerment charges against you, or is he warning that someone is likely to file endangerment charges against you. It sounds like his objection isn’t that you’re teaching your niece about firearms, it’s that you put it on fb. I believe only people who don't have access to a fb page would know they couldn't see it. People who do have access, may think it can be seen by anyone.

    Not knowing the precautions you took and procedures you taught your niece as you explained to us, it could be a Mandated Reporter is obligated to ring the bell if they only saw the photo. Due to the care you took with your niece I would expect the charge to be 'dismissed', but that would be after the investigation. Also, what I expect and what would happen, aren't the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  11. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    And so by removing the post does that mean it never really happened? I wouldn't turn my back on the guy who made the threat.
     
  12. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Honestly, I don't know if it is a threat or warning me to be careful. Knowing the guy the way I do, I am taking it as a threat though.

    My sister of all people knows I would never do anything to put her child or mine in harms way. My niece adores me and begs constantly to come over my house. She has a designated time that she calls me to say "good night" to me every night while I am on my lunch break at work. Lol. I don't think my sister would allow this much contact with me if there was a problem.
     
  13. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    I did for him to point out what he felt was illegal or endangering. But after I asked, he has said nothing. I'm not going to poke the bear any more. Ill just wait it out and see what happens. As of now, the picture stays right where it is. I do believe if my sister thought it was a problem, I'd have heard something by now.
     
  14. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    Don't know what else accompanied the photo in question. Did you just post the photo? Or did you attach to the photo a description of the activity, like you did in your OP here? Seeing only the photo could be triggering your cousin's response.

    Did your sister know about your plan to teach her daughter about gun safety? If so, you probably have no real problem.

    Also, you indicated that all your acquaintances know about your passion for guns (and presumably gun safety). I assume that includes your cousin. Have you tried talking directly to this cousin to find out what's really going on with him? Getting the rest of the story often clears up what doesn't make sense.

    Edit: Ahh, never mind. Just saw your last "poke the bear" post. You've done all you can do. Don't worry about the cousin. But you might want to consider taking him off your permissions on FB ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i applaude you for taking the effort to instruct a youngster in proper firearm safety and personally i think the way you are going about teaching her is first rate and very good.

    your cousin sounds like some know it all do gooder, who needs to mind his own business. now i know it would be easier if he weren't family, but as he is, he still needs to keep his nose out of things that are none of his business. many of these do gooders seem to think, that teaching safe firearms handling and shooting is dangerous to a child. NRA teaches it to children, so maybe they need to be brought up on charges of child endangerment?

    another point, going to his supervisor and filing a complaint and stating that making false accusations from here on out will result in you filing criminal charges and also filing a civil suit against their department. this puts huge pressure on them for what seems like his bringing his personal viewpoints into something that has no merit. if it's not endagerment and having the parents permission, then its none of their business. they will then rein him in and inform him to stick to just doing his job and quit trying to create problems where there are none. i always say a good offence is a good defence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  16. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    There was nothing else attached with the photo. My sister knowing me the way she does, the photo is self explanatory and didn't need any captioning.
     
  17. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Lol I believe this has been said on more then one occasion about him previous to this problem. He is a Class A D!ck. Ive never met anyone who could stand him more then an hour.
     
  18. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    You did what........

    Never post on face book what you don't want the world to see....... I have three loaded guns in my home...... The grand chillins ain't never touched a one..... Because the azz whippin will be worst than the talkin too.....My 7 year old grand daughter has access to a 22 thats loaded. and not once has she put her hands on this rifle..... But I know, all it takes is once......Her future is bright because she wants to kill her own game and EAT IT.....It's better to prepare than wait for the miss haps........;)
     
  19. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Call me a dick, but I would notify his supervisors in writing that he was acting outside his jurisdiction and ask them what their agent was doing invading my personal life outside the scope of his state-appointed duties. Is he a social worker in YOUR city or in your sister's city? Was he directed as part of his job to review facebook pages of his relatives for questionable pictures? Was there a complaint that led him to the post?

    After that, i would go have a personal and off-the-record chat with dude and let him know that he needs to leave his work at work and not bring it to the family facebook pages. Your sister needs to IMMEDIATELY "unfriend" him on FB to keep him off her page.

    Personally, BS like this from wannabe petty tyrant government stoolies is one of MANY reasons i don't have a facebook page and ask relatives to leave me off their pages.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  20. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    You're not a dick, and I would have no problem doing this if I knew in fact that it was a threat. Thats the problem with internet. You cannot express nor feel the emotion behind the words to know which direction it is aimed.