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Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Gunslingerbarred, Aug 1, 2013.
Can someone please explain the difference to me, what is rim fire and what is center fire?
Picture worth a thousand words...
Aside from the picture above explaining it all, rimfire will be your .22lr, .22wmr, and .17hmr. Common centerfire rifle cartridges would be .223 Remington, .308 Winchester, and 30-06 Springfield. Rimfires are not reloadable where centerfires are. Google/Wikipedia are your friend
Good pics. In rimfire, the rim is folded over to form a channel, and priming compound is put in the channel. On firing, the firing pin strikes the rim, pinching it, causing priming compound to explode. One of the first complete metallic cartridge was a rimfire.
Centerfire- priming compound goes into a small metal cup, placed at center of case head. Firing pin crushes priming material between the cup and a fixed anvil, making it explode.
And not to confuse you, but back in the mid 1800s, there were other priming systems- pinfire, lipfire, cupfire, Crispins, etc. They did not work out, and fell by the wayside.
So why can't rim fires be reloaded?
You've already put a crush in the rim, which you can't fix, and how are you supposed to get the primer into the rim again? With reloadable center fires, (there is non-reloadable centerfire, too), the primer is a self contained unit, press out the old one, press in the new one, and reload.
Rimfires(larger calibers) have been reloaded in the past with mixed results. Wet priming compound is put in the case and then the case is spun to get the "primer" into the rim. A large rimfire case can be reloaded 2 or 3 times. Obviously sometimes the case must be turned to expose a "new" section of the rim to the firing pin. This is more difficult sometimes as some guns have dual firing pins(hit the rim in two spots at once).
They can be reloaded, it is just too difficult and time consuming. You need to mix and apply your own primmer compound, apply and let it sit and dry. (very small amount) Then powder and bullet, crimp and you are done.
I don't remember seeing load data for 22 LR in any of the books, but I am sure it can be found.
And you are not going to find it in a loading manual, for a couple of reasons-
1. No heel seated .22 bullets available
2. Powder used in .22 rimfires not for sale
3. Making priming compound is not only incredibly dangerous (says the guy with a Master Explosives Engineer's license) but unless you have a license to manufacture explosives, also incredibly illegal.
There ARE some kits that have a heavy, reusable brass case with a replaceable primer to allow shooting of older rimfire rifles (like the .41 Swiss, .56 Spencer, etc)
Modern cartridges use rimfire priming for rounds so small that a removable primer would be impractical, i.e. .17, .22, .22 mag. The smallest centerfire primer would provide too much ignition for the small amount of powder in these smaller cartridges. The diminutive size also doesn't allow reloaders to experiment with different powders and loads. Even the smallest centerfire cartridges that can be reloaded, like the .25 and .32, are not popular to reload due to inability to improve performance.
Those^^^ are 3 pretty good reasons.......
C3, what do you do with your Master Explosives Engineer's license? And does your name refer to the explosive?
Screen name is military- Command, Control, Communicate- and I am 11 series (Shooter, now retired)
Grew up around explosives- Dad was contractor- started when I was 13, was journeyman blaster at 17. Along the way picked up Bomb Tech and EOD schools. Consulting engineer for insurance companies (retired) for mining, construction, research, and military related civilian contractors- and teach blasting and explosives. Now work for a consulting civil and environmental engineering company.
The section of the plant where they make lead azide (priming compound) has blow out panels, machines are designed to channel blasts away from workers, and there is still a strict man-load limit for that area- never more than X number of people in there at one time. When I said priming compounds are touchy, I meant it.
And yes, the was a Composition 3- or C3. It was a slightly different composition than C4, tended to get hard when cold, rather toxic.
Cool, sounds like an interesting resume. I am familiar with the limit on people in a room, and buildings designed to blow out. Similar practices are used in the pyrotechnic industry. Their equivalent to lead azide would be Flash Powder. What does "11 series" mean?
Sorry- Army MOS (military occupational specialty) 11B is light weapons (infantry) 11C indirect fire crewman (mortars) 11 H Anti-Armor (TOW gunner) etc. Have some other MOS's, but started and ended service as Infantry- 11A.
You were an officer? Or enlisted? When did you go through EOD school?
C3 just likes to see things blow up and his MOS gave him hazard pay all the time. My dad had the same MOS in Korea. I asked him why he chose that MOS. He got a whopping $25 a month in hazard pay and combat pay. During the Korean conflict $25 went a long way.
Enlisted, NCO, then officer. EOD schools in 68, 72, 75.
Nice. Where did you do EOD at?
Couple of different schools. Aberdeen, Redstone, Eglin.
"11" is Enlisted Infantry...Officer & Warrant Officer MOS's are 3 numbers....
If you see "C3" running you should try & keep up!!!!!