CCW at Church

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by TankTop, Dec 14, 2015.

  1. TankTop

    TankTop Well-Known Member Supporter

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    After recent events I approached elders in my church and let them know I'm a CCW holder and would they object to me carrying in church. Their answer was to encourage me to carry, at the same time they are setting up a security detail. This week I noticed a member of the church wondering the hallways and asked if he was part of the security detail, his answer was yes followed by an impressive list of qualifications. I let him know I carry as a curtesy to which he smiled and said thank you, not much more to the conversation. My question is, what should my mindset be while at church? When I'm in public with my family my mindset is, I have a tool that will help me and my family leave a bad situation. I can imagine what I think I should do if something terrible happens at church but I think I'm really kidding myself and have no clue what my mindset should be. I work more than 50 hours a week and Im not in a position to spend much money or time (I do spend a little) in the way of training. What mindset do you guys have, or would you think you should have under these circumstances? I'm of the opinion that active shooter situations are more likely to increase than decrease, what are the considerations to engaging vs actively disengaging for the average CCW holder that doesn't have extensive training? I'm not looking for hypothetical situations but more a mindset while with people I meet and worship with on a regular basis.
     
  2. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't carry, to Church except if it was still on me.
    However several people do and maybe I should.
    The Terrorist and Predators look for easy targets, like in Charleston and the Christmas Party in public building, in California.
    Sad state of affairs. Maybe a couple of years after we get Washington back, we can get back toward normal.
     

  3. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Does your church have any Police Officers who are members of your congregation? If you do, I think your church should encourage them to carry their firearms with them and maybe even wear their uniforms. If the Police want certain members of the congregation that they've vetted and trained to also carry their firearms, then help your fellow church members out by protecting them from evil people. If you can't devote enough time to training, then perhaps it's best if more qualified members of the congregation are assigned to the security detail until you're ready.

    Criminals, people who believe in the law of the jungle, don't think setting foot on what you consider to be sacred ground makes you immune from their depravity. That's just reality. Ignore it at your peril.
     
  4. Artbrownsr

    Artbrownsr Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Many questions. a) Have YOU been approached as one of the security team? b) Are you mentaly able to worship and be vigilant at the same time ( this is an important question determined also by the brand of church and type of service as well as the depth of worship the individual immerses themselves into it). c) are you willing to give a little of your devotional person to gain on the situational awareness person. d) are you naturally of the sheepdog mentality.
    use the answers to these questions to evaluate your self.
    Tank Top, I wish you the best in this.
     
  5. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I am a Christian. I go to church at least a couple of Sundays a month. I have not been to church without a gun in more than 8 years. I have forgotten my bible once. But not my gun. I do train at IDPA. And I was a member of the security detail at my old church. I have been at this church for 2 years. I do not tell people at church that I am armed. I often carry a full sized gun at church. That is simply in case I am forced to make a shot from more than a few feet away. You do not have to go to Front Sight or be a police officer to respond to an active shooter. If I did not bring my gun and there were an active shooter it would be tough to know that I might have saved lives but chose not to bring my gun.
     
  6. AmPaTerry

    AmPaTerry Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    I had an odd incident at church some years ago, and have carried at church ever since. Since Tennessee passed a carry permit law, I even do so LEGALLY now!

    I have spoken of it from the pulpit, giving the basis for a Christian to be armed (Christ told his disciples it was more important to be armed than it was to be dressed!), and I encourage any member with a permit to carry ALL the time, including at church. I know for a fact that several do.

    Someone may walk into this church some day intending to cause harm.
    In the words of Mr. T; I pity the fool!!
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    I carry at church. Have for a number of years. With the knowledge and approval of our pastor. As do a few others.

    There have been too many events where a deranged person decides to inflict harm on people gathered to worship. I chose to be equipped to resist that in the most effective manner possible.

    My goal is not to punish. It is to avoid injury to innocent persons.
     
  8. GTX63

    GTX63 New Member

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    I carry. Even if it were frowned upon, I would continue to do so or find another church. I have no intention of being involved with church security, I just try to be aware no matter where I am.
    My own feeling is that if you have to keep deciding when and where it is appropriate to carry you will end up, even out of absent mindedness, leaving your sidearm on the nightstand more often than not.
     
  9. TankTop

    TankTop Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would like to get more training and I have the opportunity to for the cost of ammo, it's just scheduling that is prohibitive. Outside of shooting I believe I bring some other skills to the table. Growing up in a less than stellar neighborhood I've been stabbed and watched a friend get shot 2' in front of me, through these and other situations I know how my mind and body react to stressful situations, I know most people do not. Also as a car salesman of over a decade I have become very skilled at convincing someone who is irate and emotionally angry into hugging me and giving me their money in a relatively short period of time. These two things are probably better skills than gun fighting in all but the worst situations.
     
  10. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am going to say run with the same mindset you already have. At least until you have time to get more training, and make extraction of you and your family your top priority. Anything aside from that may wind up putting more folks at risk, as you are not part of the current security detail, and do not know what their plan to handle such an emergency is.

    Now, I am not saying that, if you have a clear shot, and can end the threat, don't intervein. By all means, do so if you can, but also remember that the mindset you already have will be the first thing to come to mind, as that is your standard practice at this time. there is nothing wrong with this as you are under no obligation to run towards the bullets. Get you and yours out first, then re-assess the situation at that point. If you can help get others out safely at that point, do so. If not, holding ground and containing the situation is a valid option once LE has been notified, which can be done by a family member.

    Art asked some very good questions you need to ask yourself, the main one being can you worship while remaining vigilant and observant. If you can, make the tine to participate in training, and practice what you have learned on a regular basis. Keep the current security team filled in on what you have been learning, and they may decide to add you to the rotation as well. mainly, be honest with yourself when it comes to what you know, and how you already think. Work on what you need to to gain the mindset you need if you feel it needs to be changed. you know yourself far better than any of us do.

    As to carry in church, I am not a regular church goer. Yes, I do believe in Him, and I do worship him in my own way, I'm just not big on organized religion. When I do attend as a guest of a parishoner, I do carry, and I keep that fact to myself. There is a pretty big debate, even among those I know who carry, as to whether one should carry in His house, so it's best if I keep it to myself. If need arises, then they will find out, never before that point.

    my mindset is the same at church as it is at home, the mall, a theater, or anywhere else. Get me and mine out first, notify LE, and then help out if possible to help others escape the situation. If the goblin(s) tries to follow the egress to where I am at, stop the threat, or try to contain the threat with the weapon I have with me. I am under no obligation to do anything more than make sure my family is safe, and i am not a hero. If I can stop it while on the way to the exit or another place where my family is safe at that point, then i would engage. It ain't my job to run towards the bullets.

    I am not a sheepdog. What I am is a single member of a pack who will fight to ensure the survival of said pack. If the rest of the folks in there were that concerned about their own safety, they would have armed them self, not relied on others being willing to risk their @$$es for them. That doesn't mean I won't help to get them out of danger, just that I will limit my own risk while doing so.
     
  11. TankTop

    TankTop Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think I will continue to CCW and train when possible. I don't see any reason in leaving my church a soft target for wicked people.
     
  12. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Tanktop, if you only take time to practice your marksmanship you will be able to make a huge difference in an emergency. You really need to know that you are capable of hitting the target before you pull that trigger. But it may simply mean taking your gun and a box of ammo out to the range. See how far you can reliably hit a man sized target from different distances.
     
  13. Artbrownsr

    Artbrownsr Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Tank top, I tried to send you a pm and got this message:
    TankTop has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.
     
  14. TankTop

    TankTop Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just got that message and cleared my inbox, let my premium membership expire.
     
  15. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    There was a time when carrying your musket to church was mandatory. The Militia Training was held after church services.. The Pastors were often Militia Officers. :)
     
  16. hossman

    hossman New Member

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    I attend a small country church every Sunday. Every Sunday i am armed. Probably everybody knows it but nobody sees the guns. I have a Ruger LC9s in a shoulder holster with 2 extra maga. I also take what looks looks like a zip up Bible but it contains a Glock 19 with one extra mag. I never expect to need either but i will not be a sheep. My Pastor is armed during the service and some of my friends are also armed. We know what to do and when to do it. I was an MP in the Air Force after i gave up flying. I can hit what i shoot at. You may think this is an excessive amount of fire power but i'd hate to run out. The nearest law enforcement is probably 15 minutes away at best.
     
  17. RUG3R44

    RUG3R44 New Member

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    It's a sad fact of life that it has become necessary to protect our Church's with firearms. But I guess the same could be said of schools, movie theaters, etc. Probably 90 percent of concealed carry permit holders seldom, if ever, actually carry a gun. My church encourages carry permit holders to bring a weapon. Even if I forget MY gun I know several other members will have theirs.
     
  18. Werminator

    Werminator Member

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    My state actually has laws on the books classifying carrying at church as a misdemeanor...
     
  19. hossman

    hossman New Member

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    Charl Van Wyk wrote a book, "Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self Defence" Charl was a missionary in Africa. He was in a service of thousands. Bad Guys entered with grenades, auto AK-47s, etc. and killed 14 and wounded many more. Charl had a 5-shot .38 sp. He fired a couple of rounds and hit one of the Bad Guys. They ran out the door....... and more. Very interesting... at least to me.

    In Luke 22:36-38 Jesus said, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."............ The disciples said, "See Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

    So, i don't have a problem taking 2 guns to church.

    There is a U-tube about it. Google St. James Church thwarted by a gun carrying missionary Part 1 & 2 It's long but interesting.