CCPH carrying with one in the chamber

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by NotteFuria, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Empty chamber carry led to two accidental discharges with Glocks in one security company . The guards in both cases, when unloading, racked the slide, removed the mag and pulled the trigger . They disobeyed training instructions by carrying with an empty chamber to begin with .
    There are numerous war stories of similar ADs in the army from 1911 days .
    The Israelis have a reason for empty chamber that is peculiar to them : They often issue guns temporarily and they use an assortment of models . Empty chamber carry works the same on all of them .
    Cooper recommended carrying the 1911 in " Condition 1 " .
    Carrying both chambered and not is a recipe for confusion or an accident .
    We've been down this road before on this forum .
     
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  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    IMO I will always carry with one in the chamber all the times. There is a valid reason!
    The reason, time is your friend and speed and proficiency equals living through an incident = Life!
    In these critical situations there as was said no time to think but second nature(practice) to act!;)
    It only takes once! One chance! Weather you, a loved one, or a friend lives! We are usually dealing with psychopaths which the normal person has no comprehension or understanding of a person of the nature. They have no remorse and no respect for anyone and especially life!
    Read some of Col. Dave Grossmans Books or see some of his Videos.
    I have done both and they will undoubtedly Open Your Eyes.
    I have been involved with our Sheriff's Departments School Resource Officers Program
    and recently watched his series The Roots of Violence regarding school massacres and things to do to help deter those incidents. If you get a chance Please Take a look at some of his material. It will make you think about how and when you are going to carry!;)
    Otherwise making you a Sheep Dog!
    And thanks Furia!
    For teaching your Son Gun Safety.
    You can also contact your local Friend of the NRA Director and get a Free Eddie Eagle Gun Safety Video for kids. Just giving my smaller grand kids copies for their Fireplace Stockings for Christmas.
    03
     

  3. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Training will go a long way to helping you become comfortable. Find a GOOD school and take some basic classes. I've taken one basic course twice already, and learned something new in both classes AND, firearm handling and shooting skill is very quickly lost without practice.
     
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  4. PeeJay1313

    PeeJay1313 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One of the best, most reasonable answer I've read.. Take a training course. If your uncomfortable carrying a loaded firearm, DONT.. I dont wish to discourage, but safety is priority one. Especially if I'm the guy next to you.. I real trainer will observe you, tell you if and when you do something wrong. He will monitor you on several levels. And he will notice your confidence level and let you know where you truly stand. Assuming he's good of course.. Best advice PRACTICE UNLOADED and cocked. If it ever goes off, your not ready. AGAIN UNLOADED!!!!!!!! Cant stress that enough friend.
     
  5. NotteFuria

    NotteFuria New Member Supporter

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    I feel like this subject is getting WAY off track.

    • I dry-fire practice often with a G-Site laser from my holster
    • I took an 8-hour advanced class for my CCPH which included some advanced training and movements
    • I have to take 20 hours of training per year for the safety team at my church. Their qualifications are tougher than most police departments and I have to qualify every 6 months
    • I am well aware of the coopers color code, I have read left of bang and encourage anyone who hasn't read it, to read it. I am in the yellow zone most of the time
    • I am NOT uncomfortable with loading / unloading my gun from my holster. I know exactly where my finger is and it doesn't go on the trigger until step 3/4 of engaging and that's assuming it's an active firefight. Step 5 if I assessed the situation and feel I need to destroy my target
    • Every single holster I own now or will ever own will be a Kydex holster and will always cover the trigger

    What I am most concerned with are accidental discharges from the striker pin. I don't even know if it's a legitimate concern or not. I wondered because when I use my G-site laser on my S&W 2.0, which has been my conceal carry for about a month now, the laser is pressed when the rail is released and loaded. None of my other 7 guns do that. That and the gun safes all have warnings never leave a loaded weapon locked in the safe.

    I have shot the handgun at the range many times (at least 1000 rounds) and never had an accidental fire, but it had me wondering if the striker pin could accidentally go off somehow. I like the idea that @BlackGuns4Fun had, but would rather not throw my daily carry down the stairs. Does anyone have an M&P 2.0 I can borrow?? :D;)

    I have been carrying one in the chamber for the last couple of days and starting to get comfortable with the idea of it, but feel like I will always have that fear of accidental striker fire. I don't want to ever be 100% comfortable with a loaded weapon, because the day that happens is the day an accident will happen. At least with the 2 accidental fires I witnessed. I am very comfortable with how I handle the weapon and take extra precautions/care when holstering it.

    At any rate, I appreciate everyone's feedback!!
     
  6. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Again, the only way to get over it is to carry the gun. You're doing fine
     
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  7. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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  9. NotteFuria

    NotteFuria New Member Supporter

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    Thank you! Looks like my P320 came manufactured after the changes. That was very helpful, I had no idea SIG had recalls on the P320. Glad to know mine is good to go.

    Thanks again!
     
  10. NotteFuria

    NotteFuria New Member Supporter

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    sheesh, just read the story... That is EXACTLY what I was talking about... discharge without manipulation. I thought SIG had a reputation for reliability?? Maybe not so much for safety... I think that story would've definitely altered my decision to purchase the gun. I wonder if there have been any more incidents since the upgrades/modifications?
     
  11. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone tell you to get a good purpose designed gun belt?
     
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  12. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That was caused by negligence not because of the way they were carrying the firearm, i am sure there are plenty similar examples of negligent discharges by people carrying with a round in the chamber. I would say read the advice, and then carry the way you feel comfortable with.
     
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  13. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Do you even own a gun?
     
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  14. Ingramite

    Ingramite Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't like striker fired pistols either.
     
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  15. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you even own a gun. ?
     
  16. Les Moore

    Les Moore Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, another vote for heavy DA pull, and an external hammer. I also like something you can de-cock, while fully loaded.
     
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  17. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    You are asking yourself the right questions.

    Its only been in the last couple decades that handguns without external safety have become mainstreamed... mostly via Glocks success.
    (And coincidentally it seems to me...one hears a lot more about ADs/NDs than prior... )
    There were some very good reasons why in the many decades prior external safeties were the norm.

    Internal safeties are quite good at preventing an AD from dropping or jarring the gun... but murphys law is alive and well and there is always that trigger waiting to be pulled or caught or jacked with etc...

    If your handgun lacks an external safety I certainly understand why you want to carry on empty chamber (another thing that was much more acceptable in previous decades)

    Do what makes you comfortable not what the "cool kids" want.
    If you do conceal carry your chance of ever having to pull your gun is miniscule.. So its just as important that it will NOT fire when you don't want it.

    In many jurisdictions having an AD is a felony.
    Unless you are a police officer who is nearly always forgiven for the ND , unless someone got hurt (and sometimes even then), it could ruin your life even if no one got hurt.

    I do have a couple non-external safety handguns.. which i carry with a positive retention holster when I do w/ round in chamber.. even so ...I relegate those to open farm carry only (or for post-SHTF ).. any concealed carry in public will always be the ones with the extra safety.

    I am not telling you what to do one way or another... but your concern is legit due to Murphy's Law.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
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  18. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was bad handling not to unload properly and to bungle the order of steps but the empty chamber meant no round ejected when the slide was racked . Had a round ejected, the 2 guys would have probably realized something was wrong . In short, loaded chamber carry is current doctrine and may be safer anyway .
     
  19. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    Lesson from Justified.
    Arlo Givens: "If you gave a damn, you'd be home loading your guns!"
    Raylen Givens:"My guns are always loaded."
     
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  20. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Carry as you wish but if you can not draw and make an accurate shot in under 2 seconds, 1.5 would be better, you’ll probably be toast. Do with that info as you will.
     
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