Cartridge Of The Day.

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Axxe55, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i like guns and shooting and like many people who shoot, i like to reload as well. i find it to be a useful, but rewarding addition to shooting, bringing almost as much enjoyment to me as shooting guns does.

    but this thread will not be specifically about reloading, but about cartridges. their history. their ballistics and comparisons to other cartridges and our thoughts and opinions of them, and why we are partial to some over others.

    the idea behind this thread is to have a discussion about a particular cartridge for about a day or so, then moving onto another. it can be a current cartridge or an older one, or an obsolete one or even a wildcat.

    the floor is open to whomever wishes to start the discussion.........
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    how bout the 45-70?? one of my favorites. very versatile in a wide array of bullets from big 500grainers to 200 grain speed demons.

    im loading up a favorite recipe tomorrow in 45-70 which is a 350grn hornady rn over 45 grains of reloader7 thats somewhere around 1700fps. plenty for whatever your doing.

    if i need a flatter shooter i pull out my 458winmag using the same bullet and about 83grains of a2230 hums em out at 2500fps with about the same trajectory to 300yds as a 308

    so down in texas most shots are 100 or much less and nothing really over 300 where i hunt yotes hogs and deer the 45-70 and 458winmag are perfect for the terrain
     

  3. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    the 45-70 is a great cartridge with a lot of rich history behind it. very good one to start a discussion about.

    i don't have a lot experiance with this one, but it is one that has help my interest for a great number of years. i have shot a few single shots in this cartrdge and very much enjoyed them and made me want one even more.

    but this past summer, i got my first opportunity to shoot one in a Marlin lever action that Robo was kind enough to allow me try out. i was pleasantly suprised that the recoil wasn't as stiff as i expected in such a light rifle. vey nice shooting rifle. has made me rethink getting a lever action vs. the single shot i had thought about. my thanks to Robo for that opportunity.

    a very large case that can shoot a large chunk of lead downrange!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    with certain powders like rl7 which has a low pressure buildup and in the marlin action you can hit starting loads for the 458winmag with the 45-70...

    it can get quite recoily when your doing that. i typically stick to about 1600-1700 fps with the 45-70 as ive got bigger guns for going faster if i want that power level. 1700 is right in the same identical loading as the 458 socom using 350 grainers. one of the reasons i like the socom. its asemi auto friendly 45-70

    a lightweight short rifle like a 1895gbl pushing 2000 fps with 350grainers is very stout recoil put the same speed in a bigger longer barreled winchester mod 70 and it comes out more like a 12ga slug in felt recoil.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  5. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    My "standard" load for the Guide Gun is my HARD cast 340 gr FN @ 2100 fps. I have yet to find the utility pole or feral hog that can stop that bullet. I will not publish the load as it is quite warm
     
  6. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    I like and own so many I will start with my favorite "Varmint" round. That is the old tried and true .220 Swift. The Swift is an off spring of the 1898 era Remington-Lee Straight pull Navy 6MM round. It has been around in one form or other for the past 80 plus years.
    My uncles used them from the 1930s into the late 1950s. I grew up with Swifts. It is a hand-loaders cartridge and is great across the open spaces. The "Barrel" burn out yarns in modern properly cleaned barrels is a non-issue.
    I own a number of Swifts. My favorite take along is an older Ruger Number One HB with a variable scope. It is great on Prairie Dogs, Jack Rabbits and coyotes. I knew and old poacher in the Sierra Madre Mtns. of Wyoming who took piles of elk with a Swift.;)
     
  7. Cheever

    Cheever New Member

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    I just inherited a trapdoor carbine replica in 45-70, and I was surprised that the felt recoil was less than the .44 Mag Ruger deerfield rifle I also inherited. I am impressed with the 45-70, it is amazing what can be done with it. I also have a Siamese Mauser I purchased years ago and barreled to 45-70. I have yet to put a stock on it, but once it is done I should be able to rival the .458 WM. I have yet to start reloading for it but for a cartridge that has (arguably) taken more buffalo than any other cartridge I really like it (despite being a very short guy). It is a fun cartridge to shoot.
     
  8. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    I don't own a 45-70 or even a lever gun. Never found the need or desire, until now.

    I feel I should have at least one rifle that shoots lead bullets well. I'm thinkin a Marlin in 45-70 is right up my ally, but I don't know much about these rifles or the cartridge. I could use some help.

    Besides being belted instead of rimmed and 100fps, what is the difference between 450 Marlin and the 45-70? Does one feed better or worse than the other?

    Help me decide.
     
  9. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    The 45-70 was too late to have killed more Buffalo than any other round. It was created by the Army in 1873. It was a few years later before it became a civilian caliber. The Buffalo hunting period had mostly wound down by 1878.
    I have been a fan of the 45-70 going back to 1963. I own a number of them. I also like the more traditional "Bison" busters created by the Sharps Rifle co. The 45-110-550 Sharps is my favorite.:)
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    IIRC, aren't all of those cartridges related, the 45-70, the 45-90 and the 45-110?

    same caliber and basic case dimensions other than length and powder charge?
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    The marlin 1895 is a great rifle. Highly recommend it. I use their 1895gbl. If your looking for a lead bullet shooter the newer marlins are better than the old microgroove jm stamped marlins as the new ones use cut rifling or ballard style.

    The difference is that max bit more juice you get with the 450. The problem with the 450 is its almost extinct as a cartridge hard to find ammo and brass.

    Most of the factory shelf ammo for the 45-70 is pretty weak barely better than 357mag. You dont get good reaults with a 45-70 unless you handload. Its one of those rounds you need to load for anyway as the price of shelf ammo is ridiculously high for under powered junk.
     
  12. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I do not own a 45-70. But a friend let me fire a couple rounds from his Marlin lever gun. Very nice gun. I have been looking for a 45-70 barrel for my Thompson Contender. I have seen them on the internet. But Thompson did not make one themselves. I am a little concerned that the frame may not really be strong enough. Anybody here with any experience?
     
  13. Winchester94

    Winchester94 New Member

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    The only .45-70 I've ever shot was an H&R Handi Rifle with some hot 500 grain reloads my buddy let me shoot. It kicked like a mule, and I loved it. It made me want one.
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have shot the 45-70 in a couple of Ruger #1's and a couple of reproduction Sharps rifles. this summer i added the Marlin 1895 Guide lever action to that list of rifles in that cartridge.
     
  15. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    The 45-70 was developed for use in the Springfield Trap Door. It replaced the post Civil War 50-70 round. The 45-70-405 became a standard laod for the military. The government accuracy standard for this round was 4 inches at 100 yards fired from a sand bag rest.
    The standard training targets were 6'X6' a good marks man using this load could make consistent hits at 600 yards. The 45-70 was actually copied from a short .45 X 1 7/8s Sharps. The earlier Buffalo rifles used heaver charges of powder in order to shoot heavier bullets at longer ranges. The "Big" Sharps rifles could fire bullets of over 700 grs. The hide hunters set up at 300 yds almost always using scopes of 6X to 10X. They would when possible line 2 Bison killing two at a time and then retrieve the lead bullet.:)
     
  16. Cheever

    Cheever New Member

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    From what I read from Teddy Roosevelt about buffalo hunting he described killing the matriarch of the herd and then they mill around till a new matriarch is chosen then shoot and repeat, that is how he described watching a herd get decimated (cannot remember the name of the book--but it was pre-presidency). I did not realize the 45-70 came out so late, but you can shoot the 45-90 and the 45-70 in a 45-110 chamber and I imagine the 45-110 has been around a long time (probably in the Sharps configuration).
     
  17. NotMormon

    NotMormon Member

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    There are also stories of the 45-70 being used as a shot gun. Meaning that the case was somehow stuffed with a wood plug with bird shot underneath as a means to supplement troop rations. Anybody heard this story?

    Edit....I just found it on a google search...anyone have substantiated evidence of this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Troops do all sorts of wacky stuff with shells. Like turning 308 blanks into shot shells to fire out of a m60... dunno HOW I know that...
     
  19. musketshooter

    musketshooter New Member

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    45-70 ctg eye candy

    Here are a few pcitures of ctgs in my collection. The Mckeever pouch is orignal and is full of various rifle and carbine ctgs. It includes copper case inside primed and tin plated ctgs as well as later brass cases. The other includes pictures of 500 grain and 405 grain ctgs. There are two wooden "bullet" shot ctgs and a round ball ctg. The four are various styles of blanks.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Thanks for the pics those are very nrat