cartidge mistery

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by Rosko Packer, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. Rosko Packer

    Rosko Packer New Member

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    I'm not sure where to ask this question so I'll start here. I have a friend with a fairly nice sporterized mauser. It is an Argentine of some sort and the reason I don't give all the numbers and writing is that we can't determine the proper cartridge. On the barrel is marked 7.62 M. I don't think this means 7.62 Nato even tho I know at one point some Argentines were converted. 7.65 Arg.Mauser ammo does chamber, but 7.65 is NOT 7.62. I've seen reference to a 7.62 X 53 and some other odd balls. Does anyone out their know what this is? A miss-marked 7.65? An obscure round ? Help
     
  2. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    Does it look like this? It's a good chance that it is an "unmarked" 1916 Spanish Mauser like mine that was converted from 7 X 57 to 7.62 NATO. The conversion was quite common. A good gunsmith can make a cast of the chamber and tell you what the dimensions are and thus determine the correct caliber.
     

    Attached Files:


  3. Rosko Packer

    Rosko Packer New Member

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    This has a cheeked fairly nice sporter stock. It is not 7.62 Nato. The round will chamber, but the bolt face doesn't seem right, almost like the cartridge head is not correct. The markings for caliber say 7.62 M. The barrel has the "steps" left on some milt barrels. The rifle (at least action) was made by Mauser and is the Argentine type (no rear lug etc.) The 7.65 Arg ammo from Seller + B will chamber and I believe would fire. The difference in bullet size from 7.62 to 7.65 should cause some pressure problems? I don't know if this is a rare weird rifle, or miss-marked, or just some odd chambering that can't be found.
     
  4. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    If you can't figure out the chambering get it cast by a smith. Sure something will fire through it, but is it worth ruining the rifle? or your life?

    No, just be safe and have it checked out, unless you find someone that can tell you FOR SURE what it shoots.
     
  5. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    Take it to a smith!
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    As said- get a chamber casting. Product called Cerrosafe. You plug the bore- patches will work, melt the Cerro, pour into the chamber. After a stated period of time, you can pop out the casting. After another stated period of time, you can mike the casting. That is the ONLY guarantee of the cartridge that gun is chambered for.
     
  7. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Many of the Argentine Mausers were re-barreled for .30-06, 7.62. After WWII 90% were converted.
     
  8. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Active Member

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    the Arg .311 bore

    Instead of rebarreling importers reamed the chambers to 30-06 so you basicly had .311-06's

    I'd also say like the other poster get a chamber casting as your best bet in finding out what you have.

    7.65x53 (7.65 Argentine / 7.65 Belgian) and 7.65x53R

    Question about ammo for my Mauser 1909 Argentine - THR

    It was easy figuring my (1900 dated) 1891 DWM mauser in 7.65 Arg, they dont readily convert to much else unless you rebarrel, the 1891 is not as strong as the model 98 mauser action the Arg 1909 Arg is model'd after.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
  9. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    The Argentines re-barreled them, importers just changed out the stocks. Herters did this quite often years ago as did others. There are quite a few that still have 7.65 bores, which seem to shoot .308 bullets very well considering. .30-06 was used in the U.S. 7.62 was used by countries that used metric calibers at the time.
     
  10. superc

    superc Member

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    The strange thing is that the bolt won't fit right on a 7.62 Nato. That cartridge is essentially a shortened .30-06, and when the U.S. invented the .30-06 they kept Mauser rim dimensions (because the Springfield was a plagarizing of the Mauser 1898). Almost all Mauser cartridges, 7mm, 8mm, etc. have the same head diameter and extractor groove. Really simplifies things at the factory.

    I have a suspicion that while your rifle may be a bolt action, it may not be an actual Mauser design. As said above, get some cerrosafe and take the casting to a qualified gun smith.
     
  11. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Active Member

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    making brass from 30-06

    Buffalo Arms - Product Detail - 7.65X53 Argentine Mauser Cases - $0.56 brass
    .300-.329 Diameter Jacketed Bullets | Shop .300-.329 Diameter Jacketed Bullets at Buffalo Arms

    http://www.grafs.com/catalog/category/categoryId/240

    They are indeed good rifles as long as reloads are kept in the proper pressure range. You can get brass and ammo for 7.65 Mauser from Norma, but i find it a whole lot cheaper to make the cases from 30-06 cases. Just anneal them, full length resize, and trim to length.
    As to making brass from .30-'06, just be aware that the base size of the 7.65 is larger than that of the .30-'06 so cases made from the latter tend to swell when fired. This normally is of no concern, but just something to know and watch for any problems.

    ARGENTINE Mauser 7.65X53 Ammunition
    Introduced: 1889
    Countries Used: Belgian
    Bolivia
    Columbia
    Ecuador
    Peru
    Turkey
    Other Names: 7.65mm Mauser
    Type: Rimless, Necked
    Centerfire
    Overall Length: 3.06"
    Avg. Wgt: 417 Gr.
    Type Pwdr: Nitrocellulose
    Approx. Chg: 39.5Gr.
    Primer: Boxer, Berdan 5.5mm
    Cartridge Case:
    Length: 2.09"
    Lngth Head to shoulder 1.75"
    Shoulder length: .10"
    Neck length: . 24"
    Dia. At Rim .474"
    Base: .470"
    Neck: .340"
    Shoulder: .425"
    Bore . 301"
    Groove . 311"
    original Argentine production 7.65mm bullets mike .3115.
    Twist: 9.8
    BULLET:
    Type: Jacketed Rnd. Nose
    Dia. .311"
    Wgt. 1)150
    2)174
    3)175
    4)180 Norma
    5)185 BT Military
    6)211 Military
    7)150 Norma SP

    M-Velocity: M-Energy:
    1)2810 f.p.s. 2638 ft.lb.
    2)2590 2600
    3)2560 2550
    4)2590 2685
    5)2467 2510
    6)2132 2150
    7)2920 2841

    Length: 1.20"
    BALLISTICS: (Approx)
    Pressure: 39000 lb./sq.in.
    Twist: 10"
    Cases can be made from empty 30-06 or 7.7mm Jap Brass Bullet sizes which can be used with reasonable accuracy .311/.312



    .311 diameter bullets are available in 150 and 180 grain weights. Load data is kind of scarce, but for those two weights it can be found.
    By the way, i too have had good luck in obtaining parts for them from the Gun Parts Corp.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011