Carrying a knife - "more likely to be used against you"?

Discussion in 'Other Weapons' started by RemFire, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. RemFire

    RemFire New Member

    198
    0
    0
    This is something being spouted by campaigners with amazing regularity in the UK, as they are trying to discourage youths from carrying knives for "protection". Obviously, here its illegal to carry a knife as a weapon, but as usual, only decent people obey the law and everyone else just ignores the law and the problem continues to exist while we continue to be inconvenienced by the ineffective laws.

    Anyway is there much if any truth in this?. I.e. in an altercation/fight, is your knife more likely to be taken and used against you?. I never see any stats or actual evidence to suggest this which makes me suspicious.

    I'm not saying this couldn't happen but I doubt its as easy as they make out, I.e. to take a knife from someone intent on defending themselves with it. These types of kids who are attacking each other, certainly aren't likely to be trained in disarming techniques!.

    Are some knives easier to retain than others?. Do people who carry take this into consideration?. Even if it isn't "more likely", to be taken and used against you.
     
  2. vincent

    vincent New Member

    4,123
    0
    0
    That's a typical liberal bed wetter's response...

    They say women should never carry a gun because it will be used against them...poppycock...;)

    It's a feeble minded scare tactic...

    I've never heard of stats to back up such a silly claim but if they are out there, make sure the suffix of any site you quote has a .gov or .org in it...

    All I know is that if I found myself in a fight with someone that had a knife, I wouldn't be in that fight very long, I'd be walking the other way...(or pulling my gun out...)
     

  3. RemFire

    RemFire New Member

    198
    0
    0
    Good post, I agree:). Thanks
     
  4. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,522
    941
    113
    Just cause you have a knife, doesn't mean you know how to use it for self protection. The way knives are typically used in movies, and experienced fighter just might use it against the owner.
     
  5. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

    4,910
    2
    38
    Sounds like another "made for the agenda" factoid.
    9 out of 10 people on the internet agree, if you hear stuff like this and it makes you wonder, "Who comes up with this crap?" Then it's probably crap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  6. Jstrong

    Jstrong New Member

    984
    0
    0
    The only good statistics and professional opinions about knife fights are that there are no winners. When two people engage in a knife fight alot of the time both end up with the same amount of damage,the "winner" being the one that bleeds out slower. Most people experienced in martial arts and knife fighting experts will tell you that facing someone with a knife is the last thing you ever want to do,even if you also have one.

    I also seem to remember reading statistics stating that bonafide knife fights are more lethal than handgun fights.

    I also don't see a feasible way for an average joe to disarm anyone with a knife. Someone can snatch A handgun away from you if your close enough and aren't paying attention if they have luck one their side I reckon. But there's no way you can just reach out and snatch a knife from someone without getting your hand carved up,I think it would take some serious knife-disarm techniques that would have to be learned and practiced. Not something most people do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  7. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

    3,121
    233
    63
    One issue with carrying a knife or firearm. I have never seen a gun or a knife puled in a fight normally a few punches thrown its over no one hurt. You introduce a knife or gun then you could make things a lot worse. And yes your knife or firearm could be taken of you and used on you. You have to weigh up the pros and cons of carrying any weapon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  8. RemFire

    RemFire New Member

    198
    0
    0
    Just to clarify I would never be interested in having a so called "knife fight". Nor am I suggesting I would get into a fight involving my own knife unless the attacker didnt give me the choice of just leaving!. Its all BS really, I mean how many of these toe to toe knife fights take place in reality?. Anyone stupid enough to get involved with that should be refused the medical treatment that they will inevitably require, if they even survive.

    While carrying a knife (I do most days as an essential item for work), common sense says to do everything possible to avoid any sort of confrontation.

    But on the other hand, I don't have an issue with sensible people (not convicts etc) carrying with the thought of protection in mind. There are plenty of people out there that like to think they can assault other people because they are probably defensless, some of these scumbags might benfit from being politely shown that that's not always the case. I was once attacked by a nutter with a rock, when I presented my knife he suddenly seemed to shrink in size and then f**ked off, as then did I. So they can work well in order to deescalate situations that could otherwise have ended up going where?.

    It might not even be a human you need to defend yourself from, the fasion around here seems to be owning and walking everywhere with a bunch of big aggresive dogs, check out some of the incidents involving dog attacks...

    Also check out, http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifefighting.html, quite a good read.
     
  9. fowlken

    fowlken New Member

    33
    0
    0
    I was reading a martial arts magazine that I found at work, and someone asked how to best defend oneself from a knife! The author's answer was to "run", as fast as you can! It then went on to say that even if a person had never fraught with a knife in his life; that you were still more than likely to get cut! He said to test how hard it would be; just give a friend a red magic marker and try to take it from him without getting any red marks on you! Apparently, it's very hard to get involved in a confrontation with anyone using a knife, with out getting cut! I think I'll take his word for it, but if you doubt him, you can always give a friend that red marker!
     
  10. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    2,747
    118
    63
    I guess I'll just have to take my chances with my 18+ years of martial arts training with and without weapons while carrying my knife and Glock with me.

    Anyone who tells you that you're better off unarmed against an armed or unarmed assailant with no weapon of your own does not have your best interest in mind. I would view anyone who makes such a statement with as much suspicion as any potential mugger, rapist, or serial killer.

    There must be some reason, I can't fathom what it could be, that the police and military carry weapons with them.

    Anyone who is sufficiently skilled to take your weapon away from you and use it against you would also have been sufficiently prepared for an armed confrontation with a weapon of his or her own.

    Anyone who chooses to carry a weapon of any kind should have training in its use. Anyone who chooses not to carry a weapon should have sufficient training to disarm those who choose to carry weapons.

    Anyone who thinks it's easy to take a knife from an adult, man or woman, should hand a young teenager a marker and then attempt to take the marker from them without getting marks all over them.

    I carry a small bladed folder with a large handle. Disarming someone carrying a knife is usually the result of pain or injury inflicted on them, but leverage can also be used to pry the knife from someone's hand. That can be accomplished using another knife, a club, a rolled up magazine, or whatever else happened to be handy at the moment. Size and strength matter, but generally one or both parties in a knife fight are getting cut at contact distance.

    I have the follow criteria for the knives I carry:

    1. Durability

    2. Ease of use

    3. Edge retention

    I carry a folder as a utility tool that can also be used as a weapon. Knives are used as utility tools far more often than as weapons, so it makes sense to me to have a useful utility tool first and foremost. I don't carry a knife specifically optimized for any sort of doctrinal combat use, as those knives are generally not useful utility tools. A karambit is, I'm sure, a fantastic knife fighting implement but I'd never know that because I'd never carry one. One look at the blade should tell you it's not gonna work well for opening boxes or prying things apart.

    Carry a knife if you feel the need to, but do get some training and practice regularly with your shank of choice.
     
  11. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

    7,510
    2
    0
    Its all about the user of the tool, not the capabilities of it in the right or wrong hands. If your not ready, willing and able to use a tool your sporting, someone else probably will be and they could likely use it on you.

    By the nature of the terms Thug, Criminal, Despot, and Bad Person, they spent time preparing to be good at being bad, not Book-facing, studying Global Warming or Mayan Culture. As the possible victim, many arent comfortable with cutting anyone even as self protection, he who hesitates becomes victim by default.

    Just like we've all heard 100 times before about guns, dont whip it out unless your ready to use it first.
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

    21,509
    795
    113
    "More likely to be used against you.


    Right............NOT!


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1CfXj_ihpc[/ame]


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  13. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    9,812
    328
    83
    As kids, my brother and would practice with a soft rubber knife he had. We would wear dark clothes, and put chalk on the blade of the knife only, so we could keep it as real as possible. Occasionally, the one without the knife would disarm the attacker, but not much. Lots of fun.
     
  14. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    Thats the same mantra of idiocy the totalitarian leftists spew here about handguns and why you shouldnt have one. The fact is if you need to use an object in self defense regardless of whether its a rock knife gun or club its probably going to save your life.

    Actual statistics show that the armed citizen routinely and with astounding regularity with little to no training have better success defending themselves than "highly trained" police officers do. The reason this is true is because civilians arent trying to catch a goblin only make the idiot leave them alone.

    Goblins are cowards by nature with extremely poor work ethic and very low morals or they wouldnt be goblins trying to rob or kill you. Weapons in the hands of private citizens is vastly more effective at deterring and stopping crime than police, video cameras, and lawmakers.
     
  15. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

    848
    0
    0
    I would imagine there is some truth to being able to use a knife against someone. Someone pointing a gun at you 10 feet away is much more difficult to disarm than someone with a knife at the same distance. The knife wielder has to close the distance.

    That said, would YOU want to take away a knife from someone?

    What really kills me, figuratively of course, is that the people talking about knives being used against the defenders are people sitting comfortably at their desks. I doubt any of them have been in what I refer to as a "physical altercation". I'm really tired of people using theory as fact and movies as a reliable reference. A hand-to-hand engagement is dangerous, fast, and rarely graceful. I have faced multiple opponents with nothing but my bare hands (Bear hands would have been better, but you make do with what you have). When it was two to one I was fine. When it almost became three to one I realized I was going to have to fight dirty. Fortunately help arrived. This was almost 10 years ago. I would have much preferred to have been armed. Today, pushing 40 and feeling additional aches and pains of my youth, I'm not sure I would win that fight.

    Gun, pepper spray, taser, knife, club, whatever. It is better to be armed.
     
  16. Zodiac131911

    Zodiac131911 New Member

    205
    0
    0
    Those who may have a knife taken away from them, probably lacked the will to use it and were only trying to bluff there way out of a situation. My grandpa told me two things when I was younger that stuck with me. One is "never pull a weapon unless you intend on using it" the second was "never show them your knife, let them feel how sharp it is"
     
  17. mdauben

    mdauben New Member

    441
    0
    0
    I call BS on this oft repeated lie. I spent 20+ years studying several different martial arts and we often did disarming drills. The best people in the class with years of training would typically succeed around 50% of the time. Even knowing the proper techniques to disarm a knife wielding opponent chances of "turning his knife against him" are very small.

    Of course this is assuming a determined opponent. It the person is afraid of their own knife, if their afraid of actually using it, chances of it being taken away increase dramatically.

    I think the T-handle on push daggers is probably about the toughest to take away, but of course they are totally illegal most places. :(
     
  18. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

    11,010
    0
    0
    Your right....easiest way to take a blade from someone is to break their elbow or wrist causing them to drop it. It takes alot of knowledge, skill, and power to do that......it also takes the drive to be able to do it and live w the knowledge you did so to someone amd most people juat don't have that will power.
     
  19. RemFire

    RemFire New Member

    198
    0
    0
    Thanks for all your thoughts guys!. Very interesting.

    I collect knives and only carry them on private land mostly as they are not legal in public without good reason (and its illegal to defend yourself here:rolleyes:) but if I had one for a concealed PPW, it might be this Brous Blades one. It handles seriously well when using one of the rings, especially using the forward one over your forefinger, with the edge up like a clinch pick.

    Are push daggers illegal in the USA to? :eek:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

    11,010
    0
    0
    People say they are but iv never had a cop say anything bout em here in Missouri