Can someone explain 10mm to me?

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by Kenney, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. Kenney

    Kenney New Member

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    I honestly have no idea about this round. I heard it is in one way or another related to 45acp, but that's it.
     
  2. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    About 25 years ago some people decided the .45 was to heavy and lacked range but the 9mm was to light and lacked power. So they made the 10mm in an attempt to make a compromise on the .45 and the 9mm retaining the advantages of both rounds. I'm not sure if the 10mm was then modified to become the .40S&W or if that was another project all together. In the end the FBI chose the .40S&W for their guns and in my non expert opinion that is why it became the more popular round.
     

  3. 7mmstw

    7mmstw New Member

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    The 10mm is a very nice pistol round. When loaded right it reaches 41 rem mag velocities and power. But you get 13-14 rounds in the magazine. It was dumbed down because some pistols were not taking the stress of such a potent round and that kind of made it loose the steam the cartridge had. There are some devout 10mm owners out there. I'd like a Perfect 10 but I don't want to spend that much so a Glock 20 works just fine.

    don't live vicariously
     
  4. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    After the infamous Miami shootout, the FBI decided they needed something more powerful than 9mm. They did some testing and found a magical combination of penetration and expansion that made stopping an adversary much more likely. The .45 ACP with a 185 gr bullet at just shy of 1000fps semed to fill the bill. The 10 mm with a 180 gr bullet at a little over 1000 fps matched that with a bit more capacity. The full power ammo then available was too powerful for many of the agents to handle so they loaded it down to the "subsonic" category.

    S&W and Winchester teamed up and came up with a shrter cased version of the 10mm loaded subsonic with a 180 gr bullet. Ths new round could fit in 9mm size handguns and give good capacity. This new round was dubbed the .40S&W.

    To compare the 10mm to the .40 S&W is like comparing the .357 Mag to the .38 special as far as power goes.
     
  5. Kenney

    Kenney New Member

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    Thanks for that. Dumb question #2, do they make a sig p226 in it? Sounds like a very good round.
     
  6. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    The 40 short and weak was created as a dumbed down 10mm because the fbi found that it wasnt easy to get quick follow ups and some people were having trouble with recoil of the 10mm. (Robocop beat me to it with a better explanation)

    So they basically ended up where they started with a round at slightly above 9mm but weaker than 45acp with more muzzle climb than both.

    45acp has more felt recoil but its more manageable. 9mm has less muzzle climb the 40 ends up being a compromise that is kinda pointless.

    10mm is somewhere between 45acp and 357mag its a very very good cartridge for barrier penetration and manstopping but your not going to shoot it accurate and fast.

    45acp is still the best combination of power speed and accuracy of handgun cartridges. JMB knew what he was doing when he made it. It just falls in thatsweet spot where all the factors meld together for an effective defense cartridge. Others may do one thing better or maybe two but only the 45acp does it all well
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  7. Kenney

    Kenney New Member

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    Except capacity. 13 rounds are always better than eight.
     
  8. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    10mm is very expensive compared to 9mm, 40 or 45. I have no idea if that factors in to your purchase but it's something to consider.
     
  9. NOVA

    NOVA New Member

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    Well, JonM I am going to try. I've got a Lone Wolf barrel due to arrive any day now to drop into my Glock 29 SF. 4.6 " barrel. I'm figuring the longer barrel increases accuracy along with increased muzzle velocity. I know the LW is recommended for hard cast , various hand loads etc., but I do not have my own loading equipment yet. So I'm stuck, for now, with buying factory ammo. Not wanting to steal the thread could someone reply if they have a favorite brand in 10mm factory loads, is it a hot load, what kind of velocity, energy, etc?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  10. Kenney

    Kenney New Member

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    What does range ammo cost per round?
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I mean in terms of self defense accurate and fast means shooting very quickly and still hitting your target. Not in how tight a group is. Quick rapid fast multiple hits are what stops aggressors.

    10mm is a very good round dont get me wrong on that
     
  12. Kenney

    Kenney New Member

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    So 10mm has too much kick for fast shooting, what's wrong with 40 S&W?
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    you can shoot fast with it it just isnt as easy and takes a lot more practice. 40 has more muzzle flip than a 45acp does. thats why along with cost you dont see 10mm as common police issue. typical police officers spend very very little time practicing gun skills. fbi included.
     
  14. Kenney

    Kenney New Member

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    I suppose I should ask if there's a good caliber that has small muzzle flip, good stopping power AND good capacity.
     
  15. NOVA

    NOVA New Member

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    This is where I can jump back in. Personal observation - I bought my Glock 29 SF after seeing Hickock45 shooting the Glock 20 - noticed relatively little muzzle flip. Reckon its because the way the gun is built. Also, the LW barrel I'm getting is ported. With this set up I should be able to get back on target rather quickly. 29's can use the 20 magazine - holds 15 rounds of 10mm.

    Also, somoeone asked what does range ammo cost? Well, NRA Range in Fairfax sells 50 rounds A&E FMJ for about 30.00 give or take a couple dollars, I think. And most places I've checked, that's the going rate, so we're talkin about 60 cents per round. And I know I could invest in reloading equipment and recover the inital investment after 1,000 rounds, but I do not have the room in my townhouse to set it up.

    So, I'm looking at Cor Bon, Underwood, Double Tap and wondering if anyone has experience with these brands? I'd like to hit a pie plate rapid fire at 21 feet and would like to hit a silohuette target at 40 feet - at least get all the shots on the paper. I know it takes practice- especially for a Glock - I'm reading everywhere you have to practice with this gun...
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  16. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    My XD45 holds 13+1, and there is a mag extension available for an extra round or two (haven't tried it). It kicks, but more straight back than up. I wouldn't want to carry it inside the waistband, but i am not skinny anymore.


    I want a 10mm, preferably one of the Colt Delta Elites, but more for fun and hunting backup than SD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  17. Gonzilla

    Gonzilla Active Member

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    Please research the 10mm threads as I remember a member giving out an on line source for cheaper 10mm rounds and I believe it was an Elk aftermarket recoil spring that reduced felt recoil.

    10 mm is a monster and best suited to hunting. Glock sells a 4.6" model that you can stick a 6" barrel into but it just hangs out the front and does not increase the sight radius. EAA has an impressive 6" model but it's $999 plus but still less than a Colt or Dan Wesson. Sig does not make a 10 mm, not sure why and speculation only brings the nutz out of the woodwork.
     
  18. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    This covers the origins pretty well:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_mm_auto

    I've been thinking of ordering the conversion kit for my Witness.
    You don't have to reload to enjoy the 10 mm, but it certainly helps.
     
  19. sweeper22

    sweeper22 New Member

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    Cal: .40
    Bullet Weight: 150-220gr
    Velocity: 1100-1600 fps

    Does that explain it?

    Of course that's provided you load or buy your ammo accordingly (many vanilla 10mm loads are little more than overpriced 40sw). I'm not really a Glock guy myself. But this is why I think a G20 is a pretty damn great option for a woods pistol.
     
  20. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    There are many stories about the 10mm. The Secret service was looking for a round that would be not a compramize, but far superior to the 9x19 and .45acp.
    Testing on the round/pistols started in 1979. The Bren Ten was the 1st. The U.S. decided it would be what they wanted in 1981. In 1982 testing started. In 1984 a suitable platform was found, but in testing it was found that a full power cartridge over penetrated and was hard for most agents to handle. If you line up 3 people, it will go through all 3. No good in hostage situations. I can say out of a 1911 Gov't it will shatter cinder blocks.
    The 10mm is not hard to shoot, not bad at all w/ follow up shots. You can load down for cast lead, or come close to .41 mag on the upside. This was the test bed for the Secret service. Auto ordnance 1911a1. It is very heavy!
    [​IMG]