Firearms Talk banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im building a Ruger 10/22 magnum using a 80% receiver I ordered online (no serial #). I have a friend wanting me to build him one and i dont know if it is legal. How can i legally build and sale these guns. Any advise would be helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,141 Posts
I thought you had to have a special license to manufacture firearms for sale to others, not 100%.

edit* "not 100% sure about this" not "not 100% manufactured by you".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,795 Posts
I thought you had to have a special license to manufacture firearms for sale to others, not 100%.
No. if you bought a 80% receiver and built it , its yours until you have a FFL manufacturing license you cannot legally sell it . Even after that it will need engraved with your name , city and state
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,566 Posts
As said, to build guns for sale, you need to be licensed as a type 7 FFL, and pay the Federal Excise tax on each gun you make. I would also strongly suggest that you check on zoning of your premises as a manufacturing business, that you incorporate, and get some product liability insurance.

ps- don't think anyone but Ruger can call a gun a Ruger- and they got a bunch of lawyers to see that happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,141 Posts
It might be better all around if you simply advised your friend on where to order parts and how to assemble them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,141 Posts
How is this different then peacing together a ar then deciding you didnt like it and selling it to a friend ?
I think that whole "no serial #" and "80% receiver" is the difference. In your sitch, the AR receiver would have a number already, as per some BS gun control law back in the 60's demands.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,566 Posts
It is no different- NEITHER is legal without a license. You can make a gun for your own use, or even to GIVE away. To make them for SALE is legally a different matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
757 Posts
But if there gona sell a 80% reciever I would think they should assume its gona be completed at some point. Then you have the gun with no numbers. Is it wrong to decide to sell it a year or so down the road ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Its my understanding that guns are serialized as a function of commerce. If your gun is made by you and holds no serial number then it CANNOT be used in commerce. So SELLING it to your friend would be considered commerce AKA illegal unless you had the proper license.

Now if your friend bought one and wanted to rent out your CNC or lathe I'm pretty sure that's a different story. Maybe a consulting or rental fee would be in order.

Just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer.
 

·
Supporting Member
Joined
·
12,622 Posts
I am not a fan of these 80% deals becuase sooner or later someone is going to serve 10 years in Federal Prison and $20,000 Minimum Fine! Aint worth the chance for saving a couple of bucks or having a little fun building. Like it has been mentioned things that can get a good person tripped up. Are manufacturing a weapon without a Federal Manufacturers License, Federal Excise Tax violations, Manufacturers name on the Receiver, Complete Address, Serial Number, Illegal Transfer, FFL License and on and on! If your building them you best count on keeping them forever with out any of the previous mentioned items. And what happens after you are gone? Could it cause future problems for the family? No thanks on my part! Don't need any problems.

03
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,566 Posts
I am not a fan of these 80% deals becuase sooner or later someone is going to serve 10 years in Federal Prison and $20,000 Minimum Fine! Aint worth the chance for saving a couple of bucks or having a little fun building. Like it has been mentioned things that can get a good person tripped up. Are manufacturing a weapon without a Federal Manufacturers License, Federal Excise Tax violations, Manufacturers name on the Receiver, Complete Address, Serial Number, Illegal Transfer, FFL License and on and on! If your building them you best count on keeping them forever with out any of the previous mentioned items. And what happens after you are gone? Could it cause future problems for the family? No thanks on my part! Don't need any problems.

03
I am in 100% agreement with '03 here. After the proper research is done those 80% "deals" are not deals at all. OP, it ain't worth you freedom. If you build it, you may wind up having to put in your will that the rifle is to be buried with you, or have a plan in place for it's destruction.
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
13,651 Posts
With the 10-22 costing so little compared to other .22s, why not buy the original and avoid the hassle?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,098 Posts
With the 10-22 costing so little compared to other .22s, why not buy the original and avoid the hassle?
Its a 10-22 22 magnum not common. But volquartsen and a few others make legally transferable recievers.

Still not legal for you to sell or give to anyone who you know cannot pass the requirements for a form 4417 or would be ineleigable to recieve a firearm.
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
13,651 Posts
4417 or 4473?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,098 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts

I have a type 7 license. I is not legal to sale, giveaway, or leave it to some in your will if you build it your self. To sell it it has to be manufactured by a licensed manufacture to be thansfurable to another party. If you build it on a 100% lower it might be ok but I would call the ATF first. They will give you a straight answer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Am I missing something or could be simply get a serial number out on the receiver and register it? Or have his friend do the same before its assembled? Then it would essentially be the same as an AR build?
 

·
Retired
Joined
·
13,651 Posts
Firemonkey150 - the key thing is that the OP is not licensed to manufacture. Completing the receiver is "manufacturing".

To complete a firearm for yourself is okay, but to sell it is a no-no.

The same with the AR. Completing the kit is "manufacturing". For yourself, again okay. To sell, no-no.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,566 Posts
Just to reinforce- and maybe clarify a bit for some new folks-

The receiver legally IS the gun. In the case of an AR, the LOWER receiver. If you bought a finished receiver, added all the parts to make a working gun, you did not manufacture a firearm. Whoever completed the manufacture of the lower reciever was the manufacturer. If I buy one, it is treated the same as a firearm (you must be 21 to buy one, since it is not a rifle or shotgun yet- it is an "other")

HOWEVER- a receiver that is 80% (or less) complete is NOT YET a firearm. It is a paper weight. Until it is milled, drilled, threaded, shaped, etc, it cannot be made to fire anything. I can buy one by mail, and it does not need to pass thru the hands of a FFL.

Under current federal law, nothing prohibits you from making a gun for your own use. But if you buy an 80% receiver, complete it to 100%, you cannot put the gun into the stream of commerce (sell it) unless you had the aforementioned FFL as a Manufacturer of Firearms.

If you live in a state that does not allow ownership of a given firearm, you cannot dodge that by building your own.

DISCLAIMER- My FFL is NOT a Manufacurer's FFL. Anyone that IS a Manfacturer, please feel free to correct anything I said.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top