can anyone identify this pistol and value it?

Discussion in 'Semi-Auto Handguns' started by rabihz, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. rabihz

    rabihz New Member

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    can anyone identify this old pistol and value it ?
     

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  2. steve666

    steve666 New Member

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    I would say that it is a Spanish copy of a Smith & Wesson Victory Model (M&P), probably in .38 S&W or .38 Spl. Without seeing the bore, the other side, or knowing how the action is it is impossible to do other than guess about the value. Considering the condition as shown, and assuming that the unknowns aren't significantly better or worse, I would guess that it might bring about $125 - $150.
     

  3. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Here's you a little information to get started. Victory model... original M&P... model 10... subtle differences, but can't be exact without close ups of markings and numbers...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_10

    Value? While these are collectable, yours is what I would consider poor, to very poor condition. I'm not an appraiser, but I would place the "real" value at around $200 or less. Judging by the ring on the cylinder, if it hasn't be getting shot recently, then someone's at least been cycling it, which would tell me it's probably still functional. Now, because I like functional guns more so than wall hangers, I'd personally be willing to give about $200 for it, maybe, depending on how extensive that rust is.

    In good condition, these can bring anywhere between $400-$800, mostly depending on the local market. They usually err more towards the $600 mark and up for the really great specimens, give or take.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  4. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    What makes you say spanish copy?
     
  5. rabihz

    rabihz New Member

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    Oh thank you guys for these information , well what exactly do you need more to have an exact answer ?
    well this pistol is still functional and bullets still there , i can upload some bullets pictures for it . and if you need more pictures about some details let me know,
     
  6. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

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    Any markings, initials, brand on the gun. Where is, or does it have a serial number?
     
  7. rabihz

    rabihz New Member

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    Guys the only thing on this pistol is a number seen above 7292 with a similar letter O on the left .
     

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  8. rabihz

    rabihz New Member

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    Here u can see its cartridges still left with the pistol it is written 36 and 3 on the cartridges and you can see in the second picture the difference betweenn the standard 9 mm cartridge used everyday and the remaining old pistol's cartridge.
     

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  9. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Well, if it doesn't have the Smith and Wesson logo on the right side (opposite the cylinder release), then it likely is a spanish copy as mentioned above. They were notorious for making replicas, some good quality, some absolute crap, and trying to pass them off as the real deal. I'm sorry, but if so, then the value just plummeted.

    I'm going to send a PM to our resident expert in... Everything? C3shooter. The man's like an encyclopedia.
     
  10. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, do not think it is a S&W- but IS a copy of one. It is possibly Spanish or French. Unless I miss my guess, it is in a rather oddball caliber- 8mm x 50 Lebel revolver. The SF letter on the cartridge would indicate manufacture either by Gevelot of France, or the Argentine ammo plant- and Argentina did not load that round with the oddball rebated rim. The black gunk on the primer is waterproofing, usually found on military ammo.

    Now, to be blunt, your pics leave a bit to be desired- need close up, in focus, well lighted, showing ALL sides of the gun. If it is of Euro manufacture, there should be proof marks on the frame and the cylinder. Those tiny little marks would tell the tale.

    Go here to see an 8mm Lebel revolver cartridge- http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8985264
     
  11. twoolddogs

    twoolddogs New Member

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    It's Spanish, manufactured by Orbea Hermanos, a copy of the S&W Hand Ejector M&P Third Model of 1905, made for the French in WWI and chambered for the 8.3X 27.5mm (8mm French Lebel) revolver cartridge. c3Shooter, your guess is almost correct but 8X50mm is the French Lebel rifle cartridge.

    Your revolver is missing the tip of the ejector rod. The ring on the cylinder is from the cylinder stop being slightly out of time (releasing too early). I have a similar revolver manufactured by Trocaola Arranzabul y Cia for the French in 8mm Lebel caliber which exhibits the same cylinder ring. Whether this is from use or a design flaw is unknown.

    Orbea and Trocaola were among the better quality suppliers of revolvers to the French and continued as successful manufacturers in the 1920's and early 1930's, but failed to survive the Spanish Civil War.

    8mm Lebel revolver ammunition is currently manufacture by Fiocchi. If you handload, cartridge cases can be made by shortening and expanding .32-20 WCF cases and using .323 bullets using .32 S&W Long loading data.

    Value of your revolver in the condition shown would be in the range of $100.00 to $150.00, particularly if you find a WWI collector who wants to fill out his collection.
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Old dogs- you are absolutely correct on the Lebel revolver cartridge- 8x50mm is indeed the rifle round. and the 27.5mm the revolver load. Good catch!
     
  13. 25-5

    25-5 New Member

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    What a great forum. Again I learned something that I didn't know I wanted to know, but now I know. Cool! :cool::cool:
     
  14. rtaylor129

    rtaylor129 New Member

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    You sure this is a s & w? Looks almost like my old h & r premier